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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey! Just played my 3rd game of 8th edition and among a few small complaints, I feel it is a refined game compared to past editions...

anyways, I had one interesting question about multiple wounds weapons (d3, d6) and the more I think about it the more I am swayed to the person I was playings opinion, but it is important, so I wanted to ask you guys. Forgive my ignorance if its an easily answered question :grin:

one of the passages for multiple wound causing weapons states:
"where the number of multiple wounds is generated by a dice roll, roll a dice separately for each unsaved wound an use the total of all the dice rolled for the final number of wounds inflicted." pg 73 of the BRB

Now what if a hero with a multiple wound weapon (d6) attacks a unit of basic generic infantry X, and causes the unit to make 3 unsaved wounds.
Does each of three models take d6 wounds? Or do you roll 3d6 and cause that amount of wounds against the entirety of the unit.
The way it reads I believed it to be the later, but after hindsight I realized that would be pretty cheesy. My opponent stated that it was the first interpretation, but the wording left me a tad confused.

There was another rule I was a bit wary of, but I cant seem to remember now, Ill make a new thread later if it come to mind.

Thanks for any help regarding this rules debacle :laugh:
 

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Its the first one - three models take unsaved wounds, which are multiplied to (lets say) D3 wounds each, but those wounds are ignored since the models in question only had 1 wound each anyway. Total casualties - 3
That same character would probably wreck a monstrous infantry unit, however...
 

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The way to look at it is as follows -

Model Rolls to hit, to wound, then targets save. If they're still alive after having suffered an unsaved wound, then roll for multiple wounds.

Hence, a character with 3 Attacks causing D3 wounds will still only be able to kill 1 3 (or more) wound model a turn, despite him being able to cause a potential 9 wounds.

A 4 attack character as such can kill 2 3 wound monsters, but only 1 4 wound monster.

Take this example - a Chaos Lord (5 attacks) with a Hellfire sword (D3+1 wounds per hit) attacks a unit of Ogres (3 wounds each). He attacks, and causes 3 wounds, which the opponent attempts to save, but doesn't. This kills an Ogre, but as the only model he's wounded is dead, there's multiple wounds. (Note, that in a challenge, such characters are fairly powerful, provided they don't kill outright - a Chaos Lord of Khorne can get up to 9 attacks (Frenzy, Pendant of Slaanesh having lost two wounds, and rolled on EotG), and having D3+1 wounds per hit carrying over would result in him being able to causes a potential 36 wounds a turn - a tad bit overpowered.



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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
and having D3+1 wounds per hit carrying over would result in him being able to causes a potential 36 wounds a turn - a tad bit overpowered.
alas, I thought as much. Thanks to both of you for the answer :)
 

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It's quite a confusing section of the book. The way it seems it is supposed to work is you roll one at a time, so with 3 attacks causing D3 wounds you could kill 3 Orges if you were lucky. You apply an unsaved would to Ogre 1, roll a D3 for multiple wounds, if he's still alive you apply a second unsaved wound to him etc etc.

The way it's written in the book is you Hit and wound 3 Times with your d3 wound weapon, you roll your multiple wounds, say 7, and they remove 7 Wounds worth of models from the unit. That gives you a slightly different result it seems.

Aramoro
 

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The way it seems it is supposed to work is you roll one at a time, so with 3 attacks causing D3 wounds you could kill 3 Orges if you were lucky. You apply an unsaved would to Ogre 1, roll a D3 for multiple wounds, if he's still alive you apply a second unsaved wound to him etc etc.
This makes far more sense to me than:

"a character with 3 Attacks causing D3 wounds will still only be able to kill 1 3 (or more) wound model a turn, despite him being able to cause a potential 9 wounds."

Having, say, Caradryan being able to only ever kill 1 multi-wound model per turn seems a little stupid.
 

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I agree with sense. But balancing something could be a bit of a pain.

Interesting point here -

Page 48 BRB - Dividing Attacks.

It says "Similarly, if a model has more than 1 Attack, it can divide its attacks as the player wishes".

Now, a few things become apparent - 1) you MUST micro, and declare your attacks. This includes choosing the correct placement for your character in a unit, and also choosing the correct direction when you charge 2) It favours big fuckers like Kholek, High Elves with Foe Bane on Chariots/Dragons/Eagles, and Great Unclean Ones, and 3) most multiwound targets are 40mm base size, (there's... characters on foot/horse, and that's pretty much it off the top of my head for 25mm or smaller multiwound creatures).

Caradryan can kill more than 1 multi wound model per turn, though, through two ways.

1) Yes, those models need to already be wounded (such as by a Bolt Thrower down a flank). As such, using his 3 attacks, if all 3 hit and wounded and went unsaved, on a unit of trolls which has each suffered 2 wounds from an Eagles Claw earlier, they would all die.
2) Directing his attacks. If those same three trolls were at full health, but he was in the Vertex of both, he could direct 2 against 1, and 1 against the second - if he hit and wounded with both, he could potentially kill both.

Number 2 definately makes the most sense. A Character with 9 attacks shouldn't be able to kill a potential 72 Dryads in one turn (gotta love Flammable). They should, however, be able to kill 9 models - and that does need addressing however. I'll send GW an email tomorrow asking if we have it right, but I'm fairly sure they'll say no, both of these are wrong, let's take a shit on the rulebook, wipe off the excess and see what words the streaks of poo form.



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this comes up a fair bit when l play my trolls,
as it seems from now on l roll to save one of my trolls one dice at a time if l fail one then that model takes D3 or D6 wounds then and l then go on to the next troll if that 1st one dies meaning if l roll bad he can kill alot of my trolls and all the total wounds gose to combat res meaning even if its only got 1 wound left and he rolls a 6 he gets 6+ to his combat res :(
 

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the answer is no against single wound models but say against trolls if you do d3 wounds you make your attacks they make save then you roll the d3's and excess wound can carry over in this situation ie you roll 2 wounds on your first roll then 3 on the second so instead of 1 model dying and only 3 wounds being suffered 5 are suffered ie 2 the 2 excess wounds are transfered over
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
so let me get this straight.

A hero attacks a unit of rank and file warriors, causing a total of 4 unsaved wounds. Each of four rank and file models takes d3 wounds (they have 1 wound only so its moot) and 4 therefore die.

however the same hero attacks a 6 man unit of ogres. He causes 4 unsaved wounds once again, the first is allocated to the first ogre and a d3 is rolled, the total is 2, and so the original wound is not fatal. The second unsaved is then rolled on the same ogre, and a 1 is rolled on the d3 effectively killing the ogre. Then the 3rd unsaved roll is allocated to a second ogre, and rolls a 3 on its d3, this causes a fatal amount of wounds, and so the 4th unsaved wound is allocated to a third ogre only causing 2 wounds on d3. Altogether the hero claims 8 wounds to go towards combat resolution.

is that the correct way of dealing with the situation? :)
 

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thats what has been happing at the tronys l play but you still add all the dice rolls to combat res even thoese 4 man ones which may l say l dont really argee with its just what was decied by the jugde in my area it may or may not be right.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
but you still add all the dice rolls to combat res even thoese 4 man ones which may l say l dont really argee with its just what was decied by the jugde in my area it may or may not be right.
holy shit seriously?:shok: thats reall ridiculous, however fluff wise, I do see the reason.
A weapon causing d3 or even d6 wounds would probably hack the enemy into a crazy amount of gore and pieces, and that cant be good for morale :laugh:
 

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thats what has been happing at the tronys l play but you still add all the dice rolls to combat res even thoese 4 man ones which may l say l dont really argee with its just what was decied by the jugde in my area it may or may not be right.
Please use a little more punctuation mate, and set out your sentences a little better - it's a little hard to understand what exactly you're saying here. :)

At any rate, you only ever get the Combat resolution for the number of wounds you actually inflict, not the number you could have inflicted. Any attacks that would "kill a model outright" still only count for the number of wounds on the model. Also, check out the challenge rules on overkill (P103), where it mentions specifically that it is an exception to the rule that a model cannot suffer more wounds than it has on it's profile.

So if you kill 4 single wound models with a multiwound weapon, you still only get +4 res, and don't even bother rolling the multiple wound dice. For multi-wound models, you work out the number of wounds actually inflicted, and that is the number you add to your combat res.

The only exception to this is in challenges, where you can "overkill" an opponent, up to +5 wounds.
 

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Indeed, despite the confusion about how you actually allocate the wound a model may never, outside a challenge, suffer more than it's number of wounds. If you do 6 Wounds to a 2 Wound model you have inflicted 2 wounds and the rest are lost.

Aramoro
 

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Indeed, despite the confusion about how you actually allocate the wound a model may never, outside a challenge, suffer more than it's number of wounds. If you do 6 Wounds to a 2 Wound model you have inflicted 2 wounds and the rest are lost.

Aramoro
that what l always thought but l never fight with a judge and this new rule book seems to have everyone confuse (well most people at least), in any case got one this weekend and if l see it happen l guess l might try to complain for once and see what happens.
 

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what happens with cannons now they inflict d6 wounds if i was to hit a unit of ogres with it and did 2 wounds would i then roll 2d6 for the unit possibly inflicting 12 wounds and killing 4 ogres or d6 to each ogre wounded. this may have all ready been answered im just double checking
 

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Nah, cannons will go through ranks like a bolt, roll to wound the first model hit, then roll D6 for the number of wounds, if it's equal to or more than the number of wounds that model has then the cannon ball will go through and hit another, until it either fails to wound or doesn't do enough wounds to kill the model outright, then the shot stops there.

At least, that's how i've been playing it... :)
 

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what happens with cannons now they inflict d6 wounds if i was to hit a unit of ogres with it and did 2 wounds would i then roll 2d6 for the unit possibly inflicting 12 wounds and killing 4 ogres or d6 to each ogre wounded. this may have all ready been answered im just double checking
Cannons have their own rules. As per their rules, if it bounces into a multi-wound unit, you work out the hits one at a time, and if a model isn't slain outright, then the cannon ball goes no further. So if you hit a line of 3 Ogres, you roll against the first one, if you don't do at least 3 wounds, you roll against the next one, and so on.

Remember, you always remove whole models when possible, so if a unit of ogres had a wound on it already, and a cannon ball did two wounds, then the Ogre hit would be slain.

[Edit: Ninja'd by bishop5!]
 

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It makes things like Cannons very clear in the book, you hit models with cannon balls, those models take the wounds and they don't spill over.

Aramoro
 

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what happens with cannons now they inflict d6 wounds if i was to hit a unit of ogres with it and did 2 wounds would i then roll 2d6 for the unit possibly inflicting 12 wounds and killing 4 ogres or d6 to each ogre wounded. this may have all ready been answered im just double checking
Damn... ninja'd
 
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