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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
85 - Lord with MoS, meltabombs

175 - 5 Noise Marines w/ Blastmaster, sonic blaster, and a Rhino w/ havoc launcher
175 - 5 Noise Marines w/ Blastmaster, sonic blaster, and a Rhino w/ havoc launcher
175 - 5 Noise Marines w/ Blastmaster, sonic blaster, and a Rhino w/ havoc launcher
125 - 5 Noise Marines w/ Blastmaster
125 - 5 Noise Marines w/ Blastmaster

162 - 4x Terminators w/ chainfist and combi-plasma, 2x (including champion) w/ power axe and combi-plasma, 1x w/ a pair of lightning claws

95 - 3x Bikers w/ 2x meltaguns, champ w/ meltabombs
95 - 3x Bikers w/ 2x meltaguns, champ w/ meltabombs
95 - 3x Bikers w/ 2x meltaguns, champ w/ meltabombs

172 - 5x Havocs w/ 2x plasma guns, 2x autocannons and a Rhino w/ havoc launcher
135 - 5x Havocs w/ 4x missile launchers
135 - 5x Havocs w/ 2x autocannons, 2x lascannons

The plasma/AC Havocs originally had 4 plasma guns and were on foot, but I thought that would leave them too fragile, so I moved one of the OS Noise Marine Rhinos over to them, but then figured I might as well swap out half of their guns for the complementary autocannons that, if they're sitting still, will still be able to throw a good number of S7 long range shots per turn.
 

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Do you find that combi-weapons really make a difference? From a Space Marine perspective they're either the same price or 5 points less than the actual weapon that has been added to the boltgun, which has led me to exclude them from basically any unit aside from Sternguard (whose special issue ammo is more than worth keeping). If you dropped the combi-weapons, Melta Bombs, and Havoc Launchers couldn't you just about get two more Rhinos for your Noise Marines?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Well, on Termis, they're just a handful of points apiece too (a couple more on the champ, but still fewer than ten), so significantly cheaper than squad leader combi-weapons (and any special weapon apart from a flamer)--and I figure if I DS within rapid fire range of a unit and let rip with 6 plasma shots, they'll probably at least make back their investment.

I could drop the meltabombs... and have a lot fewer options against Knights, after they shrug off my bikers' meltaguns without having an "Explodes" result. I could also drop the havoc launchers, but at that point, why take Rhinos for the long-range, stationary blast weapon squads at all? All right, sure, take them as ablative shielding and another OS unit, but from there, it's just another 15 points for a havoc launcher and a sonic blaster firing out the top hatch with the blastmaster--which nearly doubles the damage output of the squad.

I've been running the mental numbers as to whether I'd prefer to have 3 squads of NMs w/ blastmaster or 2 squads w/ blastmasters in Rhinos w/ havoc launchers, and... I kinda like the latter. You swap one Blastmaster shot for 2 twin-inked S5 small blasts (and if at short range, a few sonic blaster shots, which are often useful) and end up with 4 OS units rather than 3. I really don't think the Rhinos would be worth it without the marginal cost upgrade of havoc launchers, though.

I could drop the Termis outright, in order to bring in those last two Rhinos on the dismounted NM squads, yeah. Or a squad of the Bikers. I am wary of dropping one of the few real AP2 squads I have available, though, to add some protection to two Blastmasters. Plus, well, since I chopped up 2 of my Rhinos to turn them into Vindis, I'm pretty sure I only have 4 or 5 Rhinos left, and with 4 already accounted for in this list...

Thanks for the post, though. I appreciate having to defend my choices, to make sure I've thought through and have a justification for my actions.
 

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Hey, at least you have solid reasons for doing things the way you do. If my comments even get you thinking critically when it comes to an army I don't even play I've done my job!
 

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Entropy Fetishist
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Whoops, realizing that I was saying I would make a "Mossy's CSM Lists" thread next time I had a CSM list to post. Ah well, I am working on some HS-going-mech versions of this list; I might be able to post one of those there.
 

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I keep coming back to this thread for some reason. It's a strange sort of list but I struggle to think of anything I'd change

One thing I'd be looking to do is give the lord a purpose and maybe put some power weapons on the bike squads. Drop one of the noise marine units on foot and you have a lot of points to play with- you could realistically give all three bike units some extra CC abitlity and have points left to give your lord a useful role. Sticking him on a bike or even putting him in terminator armour and deepstriking with the other guys.

I like the idea of giving him a bike, some kind of CC upgrade/s, adding one or two bikes to the unit and if any points are left maybe giving one of the other bike champions a power axe. Maybe even give the lord a steed for outflank (with acute senses buff). I feel like your list has enough shooting to clear threats for the arriving lord/bike unit, and if your warlord (as he is) is only trying to survive anyway then a delayed arrival could help him see the end of the game without dying. Anyway, how about

+ Lord with MoS, steed, power weapon 115
+ 5 bikes with MoS, power weapon, two meltaguns, icon of excess 190

- 3x Bikers w/ 2x meltaguns, champ w/ meltabombs 95
- Lord with MoS, meltabombs 85
- 5 Noise Marines w/ Blastmaster 125

Essentially a bigger bike squad with mark of slaanesh, feel no pain icon, power weapon and accompanied by a lord with a pile of attacks (6 charging). I'd be tempted to give him a lance, that unit could run wild through an opponent's backfield
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The "keep the Warlord worthless" strategy is one I wanted to try after playing against a Sisters of Battle list with a bunch of squads in Rhinos, and when the squad in the Canoness's Rhino disembarked... she didn't. She just sat in her rhino in the backfield, in an OS unit but otherwise not worth the hassle of digging out for the Slay the Warlord point. I figured this fellow might well be the same, since he's essentially a Noise Marine OS tax.

Still, I did have an alternate build of the list where he was on a Steed with a combi-melta or the BBoS in one of the Biker squads... and it's definitely tempting to keep him out of harm's way like that, only to bring him back on where the enemy ranks are thin and vulnerable. I suppose I'll mock up a list and flip it over to my promised "Mossy's CSM Lists" thread.
 

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i kinda like the rhino bunker thing. have looked at the havoc launcher and i kinda like it.
treally like it actually :)

but the mixed weapons on havocs... im really not a fan of that....

I would keep them for one purpose and keep them at that.
 

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ohh and btw i like the entire "complementary auto cannon" thing.

you get so much cooler hotels than mine :)

last time i just got slippers and coke
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Oh, you aren't living until you're letting loose into the night skies of Vegas with your complimentary autocannon (mind you, there is a small difference between "complimentary," free of charge, and "complementary," combining in such a way as to enhance). :p

I'm not certain on it either. Nor am I certain of Havocs in a Rhino just firing half the squad's weapons out the top, though I do want that mobile AP2 in the list, and once you've spent that many points, you might as well top the squad off with some stationary, longer-range S7 stuff. I may try it for a game or two to see how it fares... but I'll probably just revise the list again to squeeze in that AP2 elsewhere.
 

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I'm with otasolgryn on this - I'd drop the heavy vehicles, and instead ship those points into something elsewise. Dropping the Terminators, and shuffling things around and some spare upgrades until you can get Be'lakor is something I'd think would do better. I know that standard advise is "take be'lakor", and you already have a points tax, but Be'lakor can do a lot more, especially when you've got such a fragile list and people are throwing out around 10 or so lascannons in many lists these days.



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I'd consider whether you aren't better off taking predators than the first and third havoc squads. You could swap out both of those havoc squads for a predator annihilator and an auto/las pred and still afford to keep the rhino on the first squad, giving it back to one of the noise marine units.

The las/las/auto/auto squad has more firepower than an auto/las predator but also comes to twenty more points. A predator annihilator is 15 points more expensive than the plasma/autocannon unit but almost matches the plasma guns for number of AP2 hits (2.668 plasma vs 2.22 lascannon). At range the lascannons are clearly better than the autocannons, within plasma range it's going to be situational depending on what you're shooting. Ignoring gets hot, the plasmas are better for T5 and under, the lascannons better for T6+, vehicles and multi wound models you can ID

With decisions like this (because I don't mind the havoc squads) I'd consider whether and how often) the difference could be the difference between winning and losing. I reckon with the predators' potential to start destroying stuff straight away it really could make a big difference.

To be fair the potential for the two plasma guns to roll up on side armour is worth mentioning, but that's less likely to happen if you are sitting back early to use the autocannons
 

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Entropy Fetishist
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Dropping the Terminators, and shuffling things around and some spare upgrades until you can get Be'lakor is something I'd think would do better. I know that standard advise is "take be'lakor", and you already have a points tax, but Be'lakor can do a lot more, especially when you've got such a fragile list and people are throwing out around 10 or so lascannons in many lists these days.
Oh, don't I know it. I tend usually to be the person saying "why not take Be'lakor?" so rest assured I've considered it. I was quite tempted to throw his Shrouded on several Rhinos behind the ADL for 2+ cover Rhinos... but taking Be'lakor kin of defeats the purpose of an MSU list, really. A 350 point character is the equivalent of 2 more of those Rhinos-with-Noise-Marines, and 2 blastmasters and 2 havoc launchers more per turn (plus 6 sonic blaster shots when within 24") are a not insignificant difference in weight of fire from the army, there...

Good points on the Predator Annihilator, Squire, even if we don't have PotMS like loyalists... *grumblegrumblegrumble*

To be fair the potential for the two plasma guns to roll up on side armour is worth mentioning, but that's less likely to happen if you are sitting back early to use the autocannons
At that point, I should honestly just embrace the Steed Lord Outflanking bikers, melta-Chosen/Havocs, or something...

Good thoughts, all. Some nice discussion going on here.
 
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