Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner

21 - 40 of 43 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
807 Posts
They're called Monstrous Creatures, they're supposed to be better than most things on the tabletop, the way they are now is great except for the MCvsMC case which I agree with letting MC get a save when hit by othe MCs..
True MCs are supposed to be better then most things. But some Armies don't get any. And most of those that don't get MCs get some kind of Close Combat Walker, aka Kans, Deff Dreads, and Dreadnoughts. I just think it's unfair that they get torn to shreds by MCs...

However in fluff, art work, and video games we see MCs going toe to toe with these kinds of Walkers. I think there has to be something they can do to make it a bit more of an even fight.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,689 Posts
the only thing i can think about with balancing MCs Vs Walkers would be to create a new vehicle type where MCs get just 1d6 AND 1d3 instead of 2d6.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,209 Posts
Man, I always see so many cool ideas in these what if threads about 6th ed. I just have the feeling that what GWS comes up with will be so much less fun and less affective than what the community has thought up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
807 Posts
or you could just.....not assault MCs with your dreads....
Some times it's unavoidable.

Anywho Beast of War keeps calling 6th the cinematic edition... and I mean how cinematic is a giant monster fighting a guy in a giant robot??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,209 Posts
Some times it's unavoidable.

Anywho Beast of War keeps calling 6th the cinematic edition... and I mean how cinematic is a giant monster fighting a guy in a giant robot??
i'm still hoping they just make all walkers into monstrous creatures and add in some cool MC rules.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
125 Posts
Discussion Starter #27
Oh well if nothing at least the AP on Close Combat weapons,and Hull Points will bring Monstrous Creatures in 6th up in power level as they usually have good saves or have access to them as upgrades.Sweeping advance and consolidating into assault the next enemy unit will change how we plan our deployment and spacing.
I guess thats quite big and probably big enough as far as bringing MC's back to the game.
 

·
Ancient Relic
Joined
·
2,430 Posts
I don't know how to fix it, but Daemon Princes need to not suck anymore. Monstrous creatures need a resistance to poisoned attacks, such as the one the Necron Tomb Stalker had where it can only be wounded on 6s by poison. Also, in general, monstrous creatures need to have something to offset krak missiles and the like, i'm thinking a 5+ FNP as standard that they always get, regardless of AP or anything, because with the inability to gain cover easily, MCs can be downed by krak missiles and lascannons in a turn. Maybe call it a regeneration save or something.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,385 Posts
Easy fix for MCs: all saves are invulnerable as well as armor saves. It wouldn't give them GREAT saves (making them killable, but not easilly so) but it'd give them a better chance of not getting nuked off the board to a large number of high strength low ap weapons.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,689 Posts
Easy fix for MCs: all saves are invulnerable as well as armor saves. It wouldn't give them GREAT saves ya because 3++ is so bad.
oh how i would LOVE this, but it wont happen.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,385 Posts
oh how i would LOVE this, but it wont happen.
I wasn't thinking so much of the 3++ (or 2++ that a Tyrannofex would get) but of the higher number armor saves when I said that. Either way it's not impossible to overcome low number saves by shooting a LOT into the MCs (as we do now anyways) and not relying on the high-powered weapons to kill them, just wound them more often.

So you know....it'd be more fluffy with large MCs that actually FEEL like they humongeous badasses they're supposed to be.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
807 Posts
I don't know how to fix it, but Daemon Princes need to not suck anymore. Monstrous creatures need a resistance to poisoned attacks, such as the one the Necron Tomb Stalker had where it can only be wounded on 6s by poison. Also, in general, monstrous creatures need to have something to offset krak missiles and the like, i'm thinking a 5+ FNP as standard that they always get, regardless of AP or anything, because with the inability to gain cover easily, MCs can be downed by krak missiles and lascannons in a turn. Maybe call it a regeneration save or something.
Easy fix for MCs: all saves are invulnerable as well as armor saves. It wouldn't give them GREAT saves (making them killable, but not easilly so) but it'd give them a better chance of not getting nuked off the board to a large number of high strength low ap weapons.
I really like the poisoned resistance. And why not just give them a standard 5++? This wouldn't help some MCs who already have better, but it would help a lot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
807 Posts
It’d be nice if I could us WS to hit a rhino not just basing it off how far it moved.
Only what would you compare it to? only Walkers have WS to check to see what you need to hit.

Plus I like auto hits when they don't move.
 

·
Well That Was Unexpected
Joined
·
1,646 Posts
After reading all the comments on this thread I must say:

It's funny that GW gets so much crap for its rule writing ability, yet, reading many of these comments just proves how terrible most people would be at balancing the game themselves.

Person 1 - "This isn't fair, my army can't do this, so rules should be changed!!!"

Person 2 - "Yeah, but your army can do other things, and gets benefits it other areas"

Person 1 - "La, la, la, la, not listening"


Seriously folks, that's all we need, for vehicles to be even tougher to take out.

Do, you have any idea how much it can suck playing Daemons? Land Raiders and AV13 Walkers can be an absolute pain, and can literally decide a game.

Plus, when you logically think about it, why can a monstrous creature not take out squads and vehicles?

Think of the size of Trygons or Swarmlords, or the power of Daemon Princes. They can reduce entire armies to pulp, yet in alot of ways they are incredibly fragile. If anything MC's need some buffs, not penalties.

For example, why can a hidden powerfist or claw constantly pop away at a MC, but he can't decide, "Hmmm, maybe I should kill that guy first".

And, for f*ck sake, don't get me started about how hidden powerfists/klaws/Force Sword can instant gib an expensive HQ unit.

"We are Kharn the Betrayer, Lucius the Eternal, Typhus Herald of Nurgle, Fabius Bile, Huron Blackheart, veterans of a million campaigns, scourges of the Imperium, we cost the same amount as a single Troop Choice or Vehicle, and in some cases even more .... oh, we have just been splatted by captain no-name and his f*cking uber fist.

No wonder we can't break out of Cadia.

Well, at least Abaddon the Despoiler will lead us to victory, he has the blessings of the four God's of Chaos and is immune to Instant Death ... oh for f*ck sake ... he's fallen on his fricken sword again!

Back to the Eye lads, back to the Eye."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
125 Posts
Discussion Starter #36 (Edited)
Yes! substance instead of drivel.A few silly things said with out actually thinking about what that would mean for the game but meh.

I partially agree with being able to snipe hidden fists,I'd look more to the "Challenge" special rules to try and work that one out as opposed to straight up choosing who's dead next or an Initiative test,yea that sounds better.I would imagion soldiers fighting a large beast would try and take turns to hit the beast as its backs turned so its attention wouldn't always be on the highest threat so to speak but on the most courageous assailant who's just managed to piss it off and incur its wrath.

So Initiative test to choose who gets stomped.That'd be cool.A more ponderous MC would generally have a lower Initiative than say an intelligent Daemon Prince or Hive Tyrant who wouldn't go for that rope-a-dope shit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,209 Posts
Here's simple idea. Change the woud chart to only wound 2 numbers up. Right now it wounds 3 ups (aka toughness 6 is wounded by str 4 and 3 on a six). Vehicles don't have this weakness. An armor 10 vehicle is only glanced on a 4 str and not a three. Plus on top of that, they get the glancing rule making those hits even weaker on top of bung unlikely. If we made this Chang. Toughness 6 mcs would be immune to lasguns, toughness 7 would be immune to bolters and toughness 8 would be immune to tau pulse. Additionally, against an mc, if you have to roll a 6 to wound it should get a fnp save too to mimic the effect of a glancing hit. That would level the playing field between mcs and vehicles.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,830 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
807 Posts
Seriously folks, that's all we need, for vehicles to be even tougher to take out.

Do, you have any idea how much it can suck playing Daemons? Land Raiders and AV13 Walkers can be an absolute pain, and can literally decide a game.
First time I played a Deamon Player it I had 2 Battlewagons, and a bunch of Kans he blew them all up with no problem. I just think it's dumb that Vehicles can be taken down with one shot, when it takes a several shots to kill an MC.

Plus, when you logically think about it, why can a monstrous creature not take out squads and vehicles?

Think of the size of Trygons or Swarmlords, or the power of Daemon Princes. They can reduce entire armies to pulp, yet in alot of ways they are incredibly fragile. If anything MC's need some buffs, not penalties.

For example, why can a hidden powerfist or claw constantly pop away at a MC, but he can't decide, "Hmmm, maybe I should kill that guy first".

And, for f*ck sake, don't get me started about how hidden powerfists/klaws/Force Sword can instant gib an expensive HQ unit.
In around 20 games vs Tyranids I have never once beaten them (old dex, and new dex), Largely in part due to their MCs. Most of those games where with Orks, and IMO Nids outclass Orks in almost every way. The "hidden powerklaws" where the only thing able to actually take them down in my games. If the rumors are true is already taking a big enough hit for me to quite playing Orks all together... Wounds must be on take on the front line, random charges, stand and shoot... being able to pick out a non-IC would be the finial nail in the coffin.

Walkers (and other vehicles) need to have a chance to stand against an MC in CC.
MCs need some help getting to CC, and once their in there they need some help vs mass Power Weapons.
 
21 - 40 of 43 Posts
Top