[boreas]

Hi! A conundrum appeared in a lizardmen discussion... Lizardmen have a mixed unit that contains both skink (T2 W1 20mm models) and Kroxigors (T4 W3 40mm models). Now, du to rules, kroxigors must be placed on the second rank of the unit until there are less skinks in the first rank than the width of the krox in the secon rank. So, if we have a unit that has 6 skinks in the front and 2 kroxigors on the second rank and that units gets attacked in CC. The attacks are made against the skinks (in the front), but are the wounds removed on the Kroxigors (which would, then, have been wounded on T2!)?

On one hand, the rules are quite clear: casualties must be removed from the rear of the unit. On the other hand, you can only attack models with which you are in CC. PLus, you have to remove as many whole models as possible...

What do you al, think?

Phil

 

[sir_m1ke]

i gave my viewpoint when i wrote the tactica article (check out the tactics sub-forum for context if you wish)

my viewpoint straight from the tactica:

"the rulebook states in the "Removing Casualties" section of the Close Combat section in the rulebook that "Casualties will therefore be removed straight from the unit's rear rank". The Kroxigor are the rear rank, and therefor wounds must be taken on them. HOWEVER hits are taken against the front rank, so yeh....those krox become WS2 T2 6++ wimps. Sucks to be us but the whole "Krox in the front rank" diagram in the army book only applied to 7th edition"

this is RaW as far as i am concerned

 

[Tim/Steve]

Yeah, looks like the way to play it... but just throw a load more skinks into the unit. You'll get steadfast against most enemies, keep the krox alive for ages and negate enemy steadfast if you do win- its the cheapest way to give lizzies lots of ranks and its a fast unit so its perfect for keeping near a general's beefy combat unit (such as a slaan and temple guard unit) to protect their flank as well as flanking any difficult unit the general runs into.

 

[sir_m1ke]

The same thing applies to the temple guard and slann as well...just FYI

 

[boreas]

Would you say it also applie to a back-ranked hero who refused a challenge??? (BTW, is there still an email address for rule questions?)

Phil

 

[sir_m1ke]

Would you say it also applie to a back-ranked hero who refused a challenge??? (BTW, is there still an email address for rule questions?)

Phil

This COULD happen but you will most likely find that there are plenty of other guys in that back rank to take the wounds. due to the size of the monster bases, there are a lot less ablative wounds to suck them up

 

[Tim/Steve]

The same thing applies to the temple guard and slann as well...just FYI

It doesnt work with a Slaan- thats a character model and so it does not take any wounds not directed against it...

 

[boreas]

It doesnt work with a Slaan- thats a character model and so it does not take any wounds not directed against it...

Actually, that would be the same with krox. No attacks are directed towards them. Actually, under 7th ed. only the "long reach" rules permitted them to be attacked. Now that the FAQ has taken away that rule, they can't be attacked and thus can't be wounded. They would be treated the say way as character: different model can't be wounded unless specifically targeted. If enough skinks had die (to shooting, say), such that the front rank would be a single krox and 3 skinks and the second rank wound be a single krox then the opponent would have to divided his attacks (dividing attacks, p.48).

Remember models attack models and casualties must be taken from those models. Since the rules tell us that "Normally a model can only strike blow against an enemy model in base contact. The most common exception is if he is making a supporting attack"..."supporting attacks are made against models in base contact with the front rank model that is being fought "through".

Also, "close combat casualties will be removed in the same way as shooting ones". In the Shooting section it's sepcified that casulaties are removes from the back of the unit for gameplay purpose mainly to keep the formation neat aand to represent the rear-rankers stepping forward. Page 41 of the Lizardmen book clearly illustrate such a combat resolve (and contrary to the "long-reach" rule, that wasn't invalidated by the FAQ). As p.87 tell us about "unique units", we should refer the our armybook and thus p. 41...

Phil

 

[Aramoro]

You end up with a strange situation, I dont think you can apply the Character rules to Krox as they arn't characters so wounds can be applied to them as wounds to the unit, which sadly means they get exploded if your skinks die.

If you say that they do count like that and thus cannot be wounded you could wipe out the Skinks, leaving the Krox out of Base to base, and without a rank infront of them in Base to Base so they wouldn't be able to attack.

So either way Krox become quite limited in how they can work in a unit with a small number of Skinks.

Aramoro