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ooooo that's a good one >.> I don't see why not because it isn't considered an attack, but an outcome of its movement.

I'd discuss it with my tyranid buddy before doing it tho. Definitely something that needs to be discussed. Whenever I place my opponent's mawloc I just place it near all of my meltas/plasma and watch it burn on my turn, but if I can hit my buddy's units with it then I might do that.
 

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Rattlehead
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Discussion Starter #3
I ask as it was featured in a recent MWG batrep of Necrons vs New Tyranids, in which a Mawloc mishapped and the Necron player put it in one corner. It burrowed and came back to do some major damage. Meanwhile, there was a giant blob of Tyranids in the middle.

Can it mishap twice in a turn? Because I can see it being quite amusing if you keep having it Misplaced and destroy the whole Tyranid army with it.
 

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The Tinkerer
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Just re-read the "Terror from the Deep" special rule and I think this is legit!

When arriving from Deep Strike Reserve, a Mawloc can choose to Deep Strike onto a point occupied by another model (friend or foe) - roll for scatter as normal...
Obviously this only happens after the second failed attempt by the Nid player to clear the area of the original Deep Strike location and subsequently rolls 2-3 for the Misplaced result. Then the opponent appears to get the chance to throw the same medicine back at the Nid player!!!


Can it mishap twice in a turn? Because I can see it being quite amusing if you keep having it Misplaced and destroy the whole Tyranid army with it.
I don't see why not but if so, this Nid player must be the unluckiest follower of the Great Devourer!!!
 

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Rattlehead
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Discussion Starter #5
Just re-read the "Terror from the Deep" special rule and I think this is legit!
Well, the Codex says you can. This is win.

Obviously this only happens after the second failed attempt by the Nid player to clear the area of the original Deep Strike location and subsequently rolls 2-3 for the Misplaced result. Then the opponent appears to get the chance to throw the same medicine back at the Nid player!!!
>Place over Tyrant with 3 Tyrant Guard
>Cover all four models
>Can't kill all of them with first hit
>Hits again
>8 hits, 4 wounds
>Allocate from blast centre
>Kills Tyrant but not Tyrant Guard
>Mawloc mishaps again

Pure. Profit.
 

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The Tinkerer
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Well, the Codex says you can. This is win.



>Place over Tyrant with 3 Tyrant Guard
>Cover all four models
>Can't kill all of them with first hit
>Hits again
>8 hits, 4 wounds
>Allocate from blast centre
>Kills Tyrant but not Tyrant Guard
>Mawloc mishaps again

Pure. Profit.
But in reality I think this is very unlikely to happen considering that The Terror from the Deep placement "Attack" is effectively a large blast S6 AP2 hit on all models under the template with re-rolls to wound. If it really happens that Nid player will be scarred for life!!!
 

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Rattlehead
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Discussion Starter #7
But in reality I think this is very unlikely to happen considering that The Terror from the Deep placement "Attack" is effectively a large blast S6 AP2 hit on all models under the template with re-rolls to wound. If it really happens that Nid player will be scarred for life!!!
The thing is, if it hits an Independant Character in the unit then there's a pretty reasonable chance that it will be Look Out Sir'd, and if they're on the outer edge of the template then just a normal Character can Look Out Sir stuff too (especially if it's, I dunno, a Nob Leader or something that can take one of the hits or someone with an Invuln).
 

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The Tinkerer
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The thing is, if it hits an Independant Character in the unit then there's a pretty reasonable chance that it will be Look Out Sir'd, and if they're on the outer edge of the template then just a normal Character can Look Out Sir stuff too (especially if it's, I dunno, a Nob Leader or something that can take one of the hits or someone with an Invuln).
Fair point... just did some trial dice rolls simulating Mawloc deep striking into 5 Assault Termis with SS 2+/3+ Inv. and after two goes at clearing the site, I was still left with 2 Termis standing! Hmm... lesson here, don't deep strike into Termis or Indy Characters! Go for the bog-standard MEQ, which I trialled as well, and you'll clear the squad (= 1 victory point) & area fairly quickly.
 

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Rattlehead
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Discussion Starter #9
Fair point... just did some trial dice rolls simulating Mawloc deep striking into 5 Assault Termis with SS 2+/3+ Inv. and after two goes at clearing the site, I was still left with 2 Termis standing! Hmm... lesson here, don't deep strike into Termis or Indy Characters! Go for the bog-standard MEQ, which I trialled as well, and you'll clear the squad (= 1 victory point) & area fairly quickly.
Agreed - avoid Invulnerables and Independant Characters, they have adamantium boot soles!

But yeah, it's gonna wipe Marines or Tau units, so go for it.
 

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I don't have a problem with the opponent getting to use the Mawloc's ability against the Tyranid player. But in the unlikely event that the Mawloc mishaps and rolls Misplaced again, does it go back to the Tyranid player's control?
 

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I'm going to say that the misplaced mawloc CANNOT be used against the tyranid player, and here's why.

The TFtD rule says it may choose to deep strike onto a point occupied by model (friend or foe). It does not say that it may be deployed on another model. This is a big distinction, as the inability to deploy on other models is the reason it mishaps if it's attacks don't clear enough space, as per the Deep Strike Mishaps rules on pg. 36 of the BRB

If any models in a deep striking unit cannot be deployed, because at least one model would land partially or fully off the table, in impassible terrain, on top of a friendly model, or on top of or within 1" of an enemy model, something has gone wrong...
So just to clarify again, the mishap happens because the Mawloc cannot deploy.

If we then look at the Misplaced result on the mishap table, it says:

Your opponent may deploy the unit anywhere on the table...
.

Valid deployment does not allow you to be placed on another model, Mawloc or no.
 

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Critique for da CriticGod
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But is the enemy "deploying it" or "attempting to deploy it"?

Following your logic those are different actions instead of different tenses.

Isn't the Mawloc's initial every the tyranid player deploying it? And if it can't enter play, then it must be deployed again.

Or am I misunderstanding?
 

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I'm going to say that the misplaced mawloc CANNOT be used against the tyranid player, and here's why.

The TFtD rule says it may choose to deep strike onto a point occupied by model (friend or foe). It does not say that it may be deployed on another model. This is a big distinction, as the inability to deploy on other models is the reason it mishaps if it's attacks don't clear enough space, as per the Deep Strike Mishaps rules on pg. 36 of the BRB



So just to clarify again, the mishap happens because the Mawloc cannot deploy.

If we then look at the Misplaced result on the mishap table, it says:

.

Valid deployment does not allow you to be placed on another model, Mawloc or no.
A valid deployment for a Mawloc is anywhere on the board that isn't within a building or on a floor it cannot reach nor fit on. Another thing you're deepstriking on a point, not a model, hence why the blast marker center does not need to be place entirely over a model.

When the creature mishaps your opponent follows the same rule due to the fact that the Mawlocs terror from the deepstrike automatically overrides how deepstrike normally works. Your opponent nominates a point underneath one of your units. This is still a valid deepstrike point as terror of the deep clearly states, then you go through the process again of large blast after large blast.

The glaring loophole comes when the Mawloc mishaps after a mishap? Who takes control after a failed mishap? Does it keep going and going until it finally emerges?
 

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Deep strike happens like this:

1) place a model from the unit on the battlefield (this is the 'point') referred to in the mawloc rules.
2) roll for scatter.
3) deploy the unit at this final location
4) if the unit is a mawloc, make its TFtD attacks if there are models in the way that would cause a mishap.
5) if the unit can't be deployed, it mishaps.

The misplaced result picks up at step 3 of the cycle, where as the mawloc's ability applies to step 1, the initial placement. The reference to valid deep strike formation has nothing to do with the mawloc ability, but rather is referring to a unit needing to deploy in b2b, in concentric rings around the initially placed model.

In the misplaced result said, "place a model anywhere on the table ... Without rolling for scatter", I'd agree with you, but it doesn't, it says "deploy the unit anywhere on the table..." which is explicitly different from initial model placement for deep striking.

The long and short of it is that "place" and "deploy" are two separate game terms, and the Mawloc's rule affects placement, not deployment.
 

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I ask you then, what rules are it following to get onto the board? Deepstriking. Until it is on the board the unit is still deepstriking to get onto the board.

Its not outflanking and coming from the sides, its not coming from on-going reserves where they appear on a friendly board edge. They are still coming in anywhere on the board when the mishap which is still a deepstrike. Therefore it still follows all the rules that deepstriking dictates, including Terror From the Deep.

And from your previous post, all a mishap placed by the enemy just removes point 2 of the steps that need to be followed when deepstriking.
 

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I'm following the rules for deep striking to get it on the board. As I said, there is a difference between 'deployed' and 'placed'. The mawloc rules let you place it on other troops, then it scatters and deploys like any other deep stickers with the caveat that it gets a chance to clear out a spot for itself before it mishaps.

The mawloc lets you 'place' it on other troops, but nothing can ever 'deploy' on top of other units.
 
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