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Now would a melta bomb get s8 and 2d6 armour pen against a model with ceramite shielding , i.e thunderhawks and storm ravens as the rule states, first in shooting, weapons with the melta rule don't get the extra d6 for armour pen at half range but melta bombs are done in hand to hand and don't have the melta rule ?

Any help would be great .:eek:k:
 

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Regarding "flier models" like the storm raider is intended, and valkyries, Melta Bombs works as on any other skimmers, base-contact, or within 2" of a base-contact base.

The base of the model is counted for assaults and tank shockings, while the hull for shooting.

I dont know, but I guess the height does not affect the melta gun rule either.
 

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Yeah, I think you would still get your 2d6. It only says it prevents the extra d6 that weapons with the melta special rule gain when they are with in half range. The bomb has the 2d6 base.
 

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Now would a melta bomb get s8 and 2d6 armour pen against a model with ceramite shielding , i.e thunderhawks and storm ravens as the rule states, first in shooting, weapons with the melta rule don't get the extra d6 for armour pen at half range but melta bombs are done in hand to hand and don't have the melta rule ?

Any help would be great .:eek:k:
Well, the Ceramite plating rule states that 'Melta weapons do not get the extra D6 armor penetration when shooting at a Stormraven Gunship (Codex: BA, pg. 38)'. The key word here is Shooting.

Melta Bombs are described in the main rule book as a close combat weapon that has the the armor penetrating profile of 8+2D6. It is used in the assault phase, not the shooting phase. It does not have the melta rule. It also rolls to hit based on criteria outside of Ballistic skill (MRB: pg. 63).

RAW, I think the melta-bomb gets its full armor penetration (8+2D6). One can conceptualize it like a single attack from an MC/Walker, neither of which lose thier armor penetraion bonus dice when assaulting a Stormraven.

Others will likely disagree. Consider the discussion started.

Edit: Damn, twice ninja'ed.
 

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I agree.

The Ceramite Plating only works against shooting and not close combat.

And even if it did work against Melta CCW's, a Meltabomb doesn't state that it is actually a Melta weapon, and RAW trumps RAI.

But yeh, as others have stated, the keyword here is "shooting".
 

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Just remember that Melta-bombs aren't AP1, so they don't get +1 to damage rolls either.
 

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Now would a melta bomb get s8 and 2d6 armour pen against a model with ceramite shielding , i.e thunderhawks and storm ravens as the rule states, first in shooting, weapons with the melta rule don't get the extra d6 for armour pen at half range but melta bombs are done in hand to hand and don't have the melta rule ?

Any help would be great .:eek:k:
Technically, Melta bombs don't have the "Melta" rule, and always get 8+2D6 unless any extra dice are explicitly forbidden (see: Necron Monolith).
 

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Just a quick thought...

If Meltabombs dont count as a Melta weapon because it doesn't specifically state that they are a Melta weapon, then does that mean that a Daemon Prince isnt a Daemon because it doesn't specifically state that he is a Daemon?
(Im thinking more along the lines of the CSM codex, and not the Daemons codex)
 

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Just a quick thought...

If Meltabombs dont count as a Melta weapon because it doesn't specifically state that they are a Melta weapon, then does that mean that a Daemon Prince isnt a Daemon because it doesn't specifically state that he is a Daemon?
(Im thinking more along the lines of the CSM codex, and not the Daemons codex)
No, he's a daemon, and a melta-bomb is a melta weapon. It just doesn't have the Melta rule - which is what makes other melta-weapons different. If something was "completely immune to melta weaponry", melta-bombs would be affected too. If something specifically affects daemons, it affects a CSM daemon prince. They're far more generalised, and a little bit more subjective, categories than saying "has the melta rule" or "has the daemon rule".
 

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and the melta bomb would still use 8+2d6 for penetration with a monolith. It does not have a specific strength of 8, just a profile of 8+2d6.
Nah, against a monolith it's still only a single d6. It's come up before once or twice - the rule is pretty specific is saying you only ever get a single d6 pen.
 

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I'll just chime in here on the Daemon Prince mention:
Rules-wise, it's not a daemon. It doesn't have the Daemon rule.
It is a monstrous creature only.

Therefore, not affected by weapons doing it specifically to Daemons.
That is strictly RAW, though. RAI it's pretty f'ing obvious it's a daemon :p
 

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I have to politely disagree ... there is no strength attached to a melta bomb that I could find just the amount for penetration 8+2d6. I could assume the S is 8 but I could not find it anywhere.
Doesn't matter about the strength, the rule is very specific about only ever getting 1d6 pen. "In practice, any weapon attacking the Monolith will roll for armour penetration using its unaugmented strength and a single D6 no matter what." 2d6 is more than a single d6. Hope that helps clear it up :)

I'll just chime in here on the Daemon Prince mention:
Rules-wise, it's not a daemon. It doesn't have the Daemon rule.
It is a monstrous creature only.

Therefore, not affected by weapons doing it specifically to Daemons.
That is strictly RAW, though. RAI it's pretty f'ing obvious it's a daemon :p
No, if it was strictly RAW, it would have to say "models with the Daemon rule". Most things just say "Daemons". Bit of a difference there. If you only counted models with the Daemons rule, then lesser daemons and Greater daemons of the CSM list wouldn't be Daemons either - and we can all assume that's just plain wrong. Daemons is a subjective grouping.
 

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Doesn't matter about the strength, the rule is very specific about only ever getting 1d6 pen. "In practice, any weapon attacking the Monolith will roll for armour penetration using its unaugmented strength and a single D6 no matter what." 2d6 is more than a single d6. Hope that helps clear it up :)



No, if it was strictly RAW, it would have to say "models with the Daemon rule". Most things just say "Daemons". Bit of a difference there. If you only counted models with the Daemons rule, then lesser daemons and Greater daemons of the CSM list wouldn't be Daemons either - and we can all assume that's just plain wrong. Daemons is a subjective grouping.
That's because there *used* to be a Daemon rule, for those types of units, and there still is, for the Chaos Daemons codex, as I recall. Stupid as hell, but there's GW.
 

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If something was "completely immune to melta weaponry", melta-bombs would be affected too.
I can't say I would agree with that. "Melta weaponry" = Weaponry with the "Melta" subtype, which Melta bombs do not have. They do not even use the "Melta" rule, they just roll 8+2D6 to penetrate. Apart from the name of the item, there is no reference to "Melta" anywhere in it's rules text.
 

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It only has 8+2d6 for profile... there is no strength value ... just the profile That is it's un-augmented strength.
Profile doesn't matter for this. The Unaugmented strength doesn't matter for this. It's still "one D6 only, no matter what". If you are rolling more than a single D6 in the penetration, then that's against the living metal rules for the monolith.

That's because there *used* to be a Daemon rule, for those types of units, and there still is, for the Chaos Daemons codex, as I recall. Stupid as hell, but there's GW.
There never was a "daemon" rule, up until the Eldar codex - and that was just to clarify that the Avatar was a daemon (which otherwise you wouldn't have known). The old Chaos codex, which was a combination of daemons and CSM, mentioned daemons a lot, but never gave it as a rule to any units - they expected you could figure it out. The Daemon Hunters codex has a lot of rules that affect Daemons, if they didn't affect the CSM version of Daemons, they would have been completely useless for most of the last two editions. Plus, in the DH codex they refer to a Deamon prince as a daemon in one of their rules, and this was back in the day that no daemons had a special rule to say it.

Hope that helps clear things up :)
 
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