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While pondering MSU SW and IG tournament lists, I started wondering if melta was bad for the game. The reason? Melta is relevant to everything and it is cheap.

The typical MSU element is roughly 5-models in a dedicated transport with 2x meltagun. This unit cannot be ignored. The melta is short-range, but MSU has lots of such elements and you are not going to stop them all. Melta is assault, so once close it is the ideal gun to fire. It is AP1, with everything that entails including no FNP, and strong enough that non-eternal warriors are often not helped by having more than one wound.

The good thing about melta is that you can, cheaply, make more problems for one another. The bad thing is that it becomes ubiquitous, killing interest. I think the game might be funner if melta had some drawback, like Gets Hot, or didn't get all four of Assault, S8, AP1, +2D6 against AV. Is the issue the cost? For 5-10pts it is a hell of a deal.

Don't get me wrong - models need relevant weapons. One of the noticeable things about online games though (like SC2) is the ability to patch the rules. Shame GW doesn't do that more frequently. Is melta bad? What would make it better?
 

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They are fine how they are.

And Melta isnt the "must have" special weapon.
Plasma guns can be just as nasty, and are much more effective against things like MC's and Terminators due to rapid-fire and longer range when stationary.



Just wait till every man and his dog starts running DE.
The Meltagun will seem weak compared to the DE weaponry.
 

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I think the main drawback to the meltagun is that you have to get within close range to use it, and isn't it within 6" of the tank you have to get in to roll an additional D6? Correct me if I am wrong though :) (for SM anway)
 

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All Melta (as in the type of weapon) weapons gain an extra D6, if within half of it's maximum range, IIRC. So a SM Melta firing at 6" rolls its normal D6, an extra for being 6" away, then adds +1 to the result for being AP1.

Grish

Edited: mixed up my terms :headslap:
 

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Ultra hit it on the head, the drawback of Melta is you have to get within knife-fight range of a unit for it to be effective. Getting that close to the enemy means that if you flub your rolls (not unlikely, given most units have a max of 2), the Melta unit will probably die a horrible death, often at the hands of the unit they were supposed to kill.

For this exact reason it is not the weapon of choice against Termies or MCs, because if you dont kill them you WILL be charged, and once again will die a horrible bloody death.
 

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But given the prevalence of mech in the gaming environment, does anyone actually take Melta with the express purpose of nuking Terminators? No, you use them to melt a hole in the side of their ride so you can drop a pie plate on them.

I think that melta is fine, but we could really use a long-range anti-tank gun that works. A Lascannon is the eponymous anti-tank "big gun" yet it's so awful it's not even funny. Stupidly overpriced at 35 points per model (give or take) which is the very cost of a rhino or chimera that you're trying to kill, you get 1 shot that only has a 50/50 chance of denting the average Main Battle Tank, and worse against heavy armour. Even if you do get through the AV, you only have a one in three chance of blowing it up, less if you only glance.

I'd happily see them either remove AP1 from Melta, or add it to Lascannon and equivalent weapons like Bright Lances. Melta has the advantage of 2D6 at half range, and "special" guns like the Railgun maintain a higher strength or template or whatever they have that makes them different.

As it stands the melta gun is so much better than a Lascannon, it's not a hard decision. Even if you're only facing Trukks or Raiders, the Autocannon is a much better weapon by virtue of its 2 shots, and costing half as much.
 

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Ultra hit it on the head, the drawback of Melta is you have to get within knife-fight range of a unit for it to be effective. Getting that close to the enemy means that if you flub your rolls (not unlikely, given most units have a max of 2), the Melta unit will probably die a horrible death, often at the hands of the unit they were supposed to kill.

For this exact reason it is not the weapon of choice against Termies or MCs, because if you dont kill them you WILL be charged, and once again will die a horrible bloody death.
More than likely you won't be shooting at a MC or TEQ from 6". Seeing as the Melta's effectiveness is the same at 6" and 12" against Infantry, with the target having an average Assault range of 6". Given if they don't shoot at you in their shooting phase and don't roll a 6 if they opt to Run then you should still be safe for your next turn...then you have to bail.

Grish
 

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More than likely you won't be shooting at a MC or TEQ from 6". Seeing as the Melta's effectiveness is the same at 6" and 12" against Infantry, with the target having an average Assault range of 6". Given if they don't shoot at you in their shooting phase and don't roll a 6 if they opt to Run then you should still be safe for your next turn...then you have to bail.

Grish
Ummmm.... they have a movement phase....
 

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Ummmm.... they have a movement phase....
This.
Every normal Infantry unit has an assault threat range of 12" from their position at the start of the turn.

On topic, the drawback of Melta is that it's kamikaze as all hell, you use it against a vehicle, you're effectively signing your own death warrant if you got out of your transport, you won't be ignored.

The advantage of long-range anti-tank weapons is that you aren't putting yourself in a compromising situation by killing shit with it, even if it is a bit overpriced.


On the topic of Lascannon, I think that having one on a Tactical Squad, it costs a Fire Warrior, and it's pretty effective for the safety it offers.
 

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Id rather a Missile Launcher over a Lascannon.

Although its not quite as good against medium-AV or Terminators, it is more versatile as it can take on anti-infantry roles, not to mention the fact that they are free in a Tactical squad.
 

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Id rather a Missile Launcher over a Lascannon.

Although its not quite as good against medium-AV or Terminators, it is more versatile as it can take on anti-infantry roles, not to mention the fact that they are free in a Tactical squad.
Very true, it does maintain the versatility of the unit, but in other ways it is less versatile.
Can't do much to 2+ saves, and has less hitting power against vehicles, a Lascannon is basically guaranteed to hurt a Rhino in some if you hit it
 

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Id rather a Missile Launcher over a Lascannon.

Although its not quite as good against medium-AV or Terminators, it is more versatile as it can take on anti-infantry roles, not to mention the fact that they are free in a Tactical squad.
and cheap for my long fangs:drinks:, also it is has a higher chance of killing termies in my book since it can wound multiple times in one shot
 

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and cheap for my long fangs:drinks:, also it is has a higher chance of killing termies in my book since it can wound multiple times in one shot
They have large bases, they are naturally resistant to Blast weapons.
You'll hit 2-3 of them (providing you actually hit, which we'll assume you do for simplicity's sake).
That's 1.5 wounds, 0.25 failed 2+ saves.

The Lascannon hits on 4+, wounds on 2+, and they have a 5+ invulnerable.
A 36.66% chance to kill a Terminator, with an 18.33% chance to kill one with a Thunder Hammer / Storm Shield.
Not to mention you can cause Instant Death on ICs left out in the open, even if they're wearing Terminator Armour.

So basically, against regular Terminators you'll get equal or lesser kills on average (with Frag missiles) but against TH/SS Termies you'll get equal or greater kills (assuming you hit 2-3).
 

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most IC can be killed with a krak too though, I might also point out that around here nobody really uses termies anymore so it's been a while (such as the fact they are now on large bases)
 

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Very true, it does maintain the versatility of the unit, but in other ways it is less versatile.
Can't do much to 2+ saves, and has less hitting power against vehicles, a Lascannon is basically guaranteed to hurt a Rhino in some if you hit it
2/3 chance to hit * 2/3 chance to penetrate * 1/3 chance to destroy

4/27 (14.8%) chance to destroy a Rhino with a Lascannon.

Lascannons are no good at anti-tank.
 

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2/3 chance to hit * 2/3 chance to penetrate * 1/3 chance to destroy

4/27 (14.8%) chance to destroy a Rhino with a Lascannon.

Lascannons are no good at anti-tank.
You also have a 1/3 chance on each of those Penetrations to either Immobilise or Stun the vehicle, both of which ultimately serve a similar purpose for you, keeping the bastards away.
So we've doubled the chance of being useful right there.

And that isn't including Glances, which are 1/6 chance to get, and have a 1/3 chance of stopping the thing, so that's a further 1/18 (a 3.7% chance) of being useful, raising the overall chance to about 31.3% chance of stopping a Rhino.


Not to mention that Lascannon are significantly better than Missile Launchers against large vehicles, with a chance to Penetrade AV14, double the chance to penetrate AV13, and 1.5 X the chance to penetrate AV12.

They may not be reliable at killing tanks, but their ability to do so is significant enough for their measly cost on Tactical Squads.


They really aren't worth it on Devastators though because of the huge cost :\
 

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Just wait till every man and his dog starts running DE.
The Meltagun will seem weak compared to the DE weaponry.
It's going to be hilarious if this happens because we'll start seeing more black templar blessed hull land raider armies. DE have pretty much nothing that will affect that except the heat lance, and even then 6+2d6 only averages out to 13.
 

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It's going to be hilarious if this happens because we'll start seeing more black templar blessed hull land raider armies. DE have pretty much nothing that will affect that except the heat lance, and even then 6+2d6 only averages out to 13.
dont all "lance" weaponry reduce the AV of any vehicle to AV12 if its over 12?
 

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dont all "lance" weaponry reduce the AV of any vehicle to AV12 if its over 12?
I believe that's why he pointed out "blessed hull" land raiders instead of normal ones
 
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