Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner
1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,323 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Blew the dust of my Guard army the other day when a friend said he wanted to test a list he'd been working on for an upcoming tournament. I knew my BA would fold like origami to a competitive Imperial Fist list so I went hard on the tanks. Had a ton of fun in the match and lost, but the results have been scrubbed since his list turned out to be illegal (I might just have won by 1 point instead of losing by 2!). We'll rematch when he figures out what he wants to change about his list.

I played a Combined Arms Detachment using:

Pask in a Punisher - hull and sponson heavy bolters
Executioner - hull heavy bolter, sponson plasma cannons​

3x Veteran squads - autocannon and Chimera for each

Vendetta

Battle Tank - hull and sponson heavy bolters

Battle Tank - hull and sponson heavy bolters

Manticore

Came out to 1500 bang on. The Manticore wiffed on every god damned shot...temperamental bastard. Otherwise everything was friggin' mint. Battle cannons could have been more effective but what can you do with a shit ton of cover on the table? Meltaguns podded in next to Pask and his pal, but a scatter put the Executioner up to explode first. Pask wasn't merciful in his retaliation upon those Sternguard. Love that gun of his. Anyway, does anything stand out as worth a tweak? These are the models I have but I can figure out something for tank weapons/proxy them with little issue. Something I wanted to do was smack a CCS into the Vendetta, but it seems like a misuse of them when I have three Vet squads in Chimeras and a fourth tank painted all special just for them to issue orders out of. There's a cheap Basilisk at the LGS that I could repaint pretty easy by the looks of it, think that would be a more reliable and less expensive replacement for the Manticore? AP4 really blows in a MEQ dominated meta even if it's S10.

Thanks for reading! :drinks:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,323 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Played this list allied with 1500 points of infantry Guard from a buddy against 3k of Eldar.

Only lost one tank from my whole list (the Manticore after it had blown its unreliable load) but the Eldar jumped up on some Objectives at the last second and won the game by a point. Either way, this list is great but I really think it's time to trade the Manticore for a Basilisk.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
533 Posts
If I were taking LRBTs I wouldn't bother with heavy bolter sponsons. What's the point? In fact Because of ordnance I'd go further and take LR eradicators instead of battle tanks. Hull heavy bolter, heavy stubber and... plasma cannon sponsons! Against light infantry I can't see the heavy bolters doing more damage than two plasma cannons, and against almost all other targets the plasma cannons would be more valuable. Their AP2 would make up for the loss of the battle cannon's AP3 (and allow you to harm 2+ saves too). Of course, there's the risk of losing hull points but I'd chance it

LRBTs are the iconic IG tank though, so I can see why they're still popular.

Otherwise I like your list. I've wanted to try IG myself but there's always been a faction I prefer. Maybe one day.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,323 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
If I were taking LRBTs I wouldn't bother with heavy bolter sponsons. What's the point?
Says 'the internet'. Everyone calls me on this, and I play it because that's how the army I bought was modeled (hey, at least I cut off the more expensive stuff that it had of and magnetized those options), but in all honesty having those sponson weapons has come in pretty handy in a lot of circumstances for me. Over half the vehicle damage chart negates my cannon for a turn, and having those on deck for weapon destroyed results is handy. Then there was the time when my cannon scattered off the one guy holding the game winning objective and the snap shot heavy bolters were the ones to kill him, securing my victory in the name of the Emperor and dice luck.

I'd go further and take LR eradicators instead of battle tanks
Those Eradicators do indeed dangle the carrot of Ignores Cover to me though. I might have to do some...work....on my tanks to make those turret guns possible (though I'll play-test with proxies before going hog with the knife of course). Plasma cannons on tanks without that lovely re-roll from Preferred Enemy pretty much always end in my opponent completely ignoring that tank and laughing at me while it glances itself to death.

LRBTs are the iconic IG tank though, so I can see why they're still popular.
AP3 is why they're popular with me, MEQ dominated meta over here. One day I will own some Basilisks for that though...

Otherwise I like your list. I've wanted to try IG myself but there's always been a faction I prefer. Maybe one day.
Thanks! I got the army pretty much fully painted from a friend as he moved to another Province and needed to slim down the extras, otherwise I likely never would have started them up. Very fun to play though, and offers a very different play style to my typical Blood Angel 'fist and fire' fest.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,323 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
...actually if I played two Eradicators equipped the same as the Battle tanks I could switch all the Veteran squads to having 3x meltaguns each and play a fully painted army. That's a pretty good reason to cut away :laugh:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,422 Posts
I've had some limited success with eradicators, but battle tanks have been my mainstay. The six foot reach out and touch with AP3 Ordinance has always been highly attractive, and mostly effective except where playing against a multi land raider list.

Having said that, my meta has had limited marines, and of those one can usually expect at least 5 if not 10 terminators, a tech marine with thudd gun thingo and a raider to with them. The LRBT has good days against this, but the demolisher has really shone. The problem is though, once you go to playing the short edges, the demolisher discovers that it isn't that hard for someone to outflank it or just overwhelm that AV14 front hull with enough longer range firepower than it has.
I'd imagine that the eradicator has the same problem, with the added problem of only ignoring eldar (not jet bike either) armour, for a very annoying time.
On the other hand, it would really rock at being a last stand vehicle against orks!

I think your list is awesome as is, if I was going to make any change it would be to drop one chimera for camo cloaks, make the foot squad a cover-seeking shooting trap as it gets 3+ cover saves in ruins and 2+ cover saves when stealth is in effect (mysterious objectives, nightfighting etc) and as a screen for your short ranged tanks, then use the remaining fifty odd points for meltas in your mech vets.

Alternatively, you could drop the manticore for a basilisk as you said (fair enough if you are chasing AP3 weaponry, the manticore really excels at killing clumped vehicles and light infantry, not MEq), leave the meltas off the mech vets and get your command squad in... though I don't think that is the best use of the points.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,323 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I'm facing a Salamanders army today with it, so I'll be keeping the Battle Tanks for this one. IC won't matter against 3+ armour today.

I like the idea of giving one squad camo cloaks @Iraqiel, shame they didn't get Infiltrate on top of that! Man I wish the Vendetta could hold 10 models...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,323 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Well, I got beaten up by them Sallies. It was a super close game with him rolling -terribly- with his melta shots but he got me on Linebreaker and one Heavy Support kill (we were playing BGNT). I dropped the Vendetta for meltas in the Vets and camo for a bunch of the tanks (among some other filler upgrades, either way where's a damn Basilisk when ya need one) because they guy had absolutely nothing to deal with Fliers (and those three LC shots would have done shit all against his list...well, would have helped against his Redeemer I guess...crap).

Either way I want that Manticore out of my collection. It's such a god damned waste in my games, I have never been happy about using it or the turnout for its 170 point investment (plus I have to dick around with magnetized missiles the way the guy who I got it from did it; well done, but not the way I would have gone about it).

Oh, and by the way....sponson heavy bolters on the LRBTs glanced down an ObSec Rhino at the end of the game to allow me to hold a crucial Objective. Otherwise I would have lost 6-1 as opposed to 6-4.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,422 Posts
Ha nice one Leman Russ!

Shame about the loss, if you want to send me your malfunctioning manticore I'll make sure that it has a good home in my 'ready for apocalypse' collection!

I agree with swapping out flyers if asked by the other person (to keep the good spirits in the game), but then I think that salamanders are the perfect anti-guard chapter so in this case I'd probably negotiate as there would really not be any impact on how fun, close or competitive the game would be. No point knee-capping yourself, especially when faced by things like Redeemers which can really wreck a guardsman's day - and his chimera's!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,323 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Dude if you want it pm me and I'll send you pics/chat about it....though it will all pend what the shipping between our great countries amounts to :shok: As much as I play to win and (agonizingly) min/max my lists I'm all about the rule of cool and the Manticore just doesn't fit that mould for me.

Sallies (and SM) are pretty point and shoot against armour if you want to grab a couple Drop Pods. I've been playing my Guard because Deathwing solo has been invalidated and I tired of the DP/jump infantry rush that I was using with my Blood Angels. It was this guy's first game ever playing SM and I'm not even ashamed to admit that <insert laughter here>. I was telling him more rules than he knew for SM, if the dice even remotely favoured him it would have been over T3/4 instead of rolling off on T6.

As for the list....if I dropped the Vendetta and the Manticore I could melta up my Vets and play two (sadly unowned but soon that will be rectified maybe) Basilisks. I think anyway...the points added up in my mind a couple minutes ago I promise.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,422 Posts
I'm all about the rule of cool and the Manticore just doesn't fit that mould for me.
Haha takes all sorts. They say that you use mortar to kill infantry, artillery guns to kill mortars and rocket artillery to kill guns. I guess the next escalation is either a cruise missile, airstrikes or orbital bombardment?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,323 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I guess the next escalation is either a cruise missile, airstrikes or orbital bombardment?
I need Ignores Cover (long-range would be a bonus) in the list, pure and simple. That Manticore needed to kill 5 Scouts with camo in a reinforced Ruin and it couldn't do it with 4 shots (6 blasts between them). 2+ cover is sweet, but that was the last straw.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,422 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,323 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
They are a good tank, but are they a better option than playing my Battle Tanks as Eradicators (or for that matter just playing one BT and one Erad.)?

I like the durability of the Leman Russ chassis over the Chimera personally but have no experience with either tank.

New variant list incoming, dude wants to rematch me with his CSM/Daemon army. Might actually bust out my Bane Wolf for extra crispy traitors.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,323 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
OK. So the Vendetta is out because too often my opponents have no ability to deal with them and I don't really like Fliers that much so I'm fine to drop it. There will be plenty of killy left...though I've yet to address my Ignores Cover issue, this guy's army is so gloriously painted it would be a crime to proxy stuff against it. I'm thinking:

Pask in a Punisher - hull lascannon and sponson multi-meltas
Executioner - hull lascannon, sponson plasma cannons​

3x Veteran squads - 3x meltaguns, carapace armour, and Chimera for each

Bane Wolf

Armoured Sentinel - lascannon

Battle Tank - hull and sponson heavy bolters, camo netting

Battle Tank - hull and sponson heavy bolters, camo netting

Still a lot more upgrades than I usually use. I feel like the chem cannon and Sentinel lascannon will be more useful to me than the Manticore, which has done jack shit in the last three games.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,422 Posts
Still a lot more upgrades than I usually use. I feel like the chem cannon and Sentinel lascannon will be more useful to me than the Manticore, which has done jack shit in the last three games.
Yeahhh... I don't trust the banewolf, that thing has a mere template attack which to me says that it dies getting there or the turn after firing. I'd be more inclined towards a devil dog, which could replace your manticore's tank hunting and also quench terminators.

I also hate lascannon sentinels with a passion. One shot + BS3 + my luck = I'd be better off giving it a heavy flamer and charging it in to tarpit tactical marines.

I run mine either with Autocannons or plasma cannons to mitigate my many, many rolls of 1 or 2.

Actually, this kinda makes me want to play a mecha infantry list using all my sentinels... shame that leaves no slots for devildogs!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,323 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I totally see your point on the Bane Wolf, though I'm no stranger to using flamer-based tanks as a BA player. She'd be hiding among the ChimeraVets waiting to counter attack. I like the Devil Dog idea though, I may convince myself to proxy it if I get a second match in against a new opponent this weekend. The Sentinel is the worst thing ever, but it's also the most hilarious target priority game I could play. That lascannon could blow up his Land Raider and flat tire his Terminator/Vulkan squad's advance given that it's AP2. He might take the bait and shoot at it instead of one of my super awesome tanks, who knows? I'll definitely be sawing off the LC and magnetizing some options one day unless a sweet trade comes along.

Sentinel army?! That's mad talk.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,422 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,323 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
So this list faced and brutalized some Orks today. If I had've had the Manticore it might actually have worked out for me! :laugh:

Here's a blurry startup pic:



and some pics of his gorgeous Ork army (very Mad MAx themed):







It ended with me entirely on board edges in that corner with all four of my Leman Russ's pouring fire into the Orks as they made their way over the wreckage of my front line. I didn't even get a chance to move my guys from deployment basically, those Orks were fast. Great game all around, if his Warboss had have made it past the first tank he blew up I might have lost.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,422 Posts
Wow, that's an awesome ork army. I particularly like his phaeton-wagon.

Looks like it was a fun game, how funny that your list and my list both faced down orks shortly after being written. Well done for winning with yours though!
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top