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Discussion Starter #1
Hello,

Well, as usual I am planning my army list for a game with friends next month. The point set is 2K and its an all out killing spree, the player with the highest confirmed body count at the end of 6 rounds wins. Seems simple enough. However, due to past games (where I've lost almost all bit one, I'm looking to up the ante on my list this time around. So, lets take a look at the usual suspects (opponent armies) that may make an appearance.

Thousand Sons
Sisters of Battle
Dark Eldar
Deathwing
Space Wolves
Orks
Grey Knights w/ Imperial Guard allies
Daemons

So, that's the potential field I'm facing. At 2k all of those can pose a most serious threat to Codex: Space Marines. I'd like to build a Jack of All Trades list, but, not exactly sure how possible that may be. I'm highly considering going mechanized and using Landraiders & Terminators for the bulk of my army. I'm not sure on HQ at this point but I'm sure a Libby in TA and Chappy in TA might be the route I go. Tentatively the rough draft resembles this.

HQ
Termie Libby
Termie Chappy

Troops
Scouts w/ML and Snipers, Telion
Tactical squad w/ Rhino

Elites
Assault Terminators, LRR
Terminators, LR
Ironclad / Sternguard / Termies?

Fast
Don't know.

Heavy
Dakka Pred
Dakka Pred
Landraider(?)

Any help would be appreciated.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Ok, after consideration (and getting Death From The Skies) I've come up with the following list for some In your face gameplay.

HQ 175
Pedro Kantor

Troops 555
Scouts; Telion, ML, 3 Sniper Rifles
Tactical; ML, MG, Rhino
Tactical; ML, MG, Rhino

Elite 605
Assault Terminators; TH&SS, Landraider Redeemer
Ironclad Dreadnought; 2 Heavy Flamers, Ironclad Assault Launchers

Fast 350
Stormtalon; Skyhammer ML
Assault Squad; 2 Flamers, Sgt w/ Power Axe

Heavy 315
Stormraven; Lascannon Turret, Multi Melta, Hurricane Bolters
Predator; AC, Heavy Bolter Sponsons

In this set up Kantor, the Assault Squad, and the Ironclad will ride in on the Stormraven in support of the Assault Terminators after they've gotten into combat.
The Predator will ride along the Landraider and support it as will the Rhinos with Melta Gun combat squads. The ML squads will hang back and fire at range into enemy armour/troops as need be.
Telion and his scouts will set up in cover and fire as need be to pick off opposing units.
Thoughts?u
 

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Well, looking at your opponents I would recommend loading up on plasma. But looking at your list heres my ideas,

HQ: I can't really see what Pedro adds to your list I would say that Vulkan would be a better choice with the level of flamers and meltaguns in your army. That aside a barebones Librarian would fit in nicely and if you could find the points 2. Or as you said in your face-y chaplains are a good choice for assault units.

Troops: All looks good

Elite: I know the validity of these but GK and Deathwing make these pale in comparison. If your set on Kantor maybe 2 squads of sternguard maxed out with drop pods and a few combi-meltas/plasmas and meltaguns will work better all round but yet again is personal opinion.

Fast: Stormtalon - great. The Assault Marines just dont have enough band for your buck the difficult thing is what to replace them with. Id personally say another Stormtalon and points povided a third. Or if you want a bodyguard for your HQ veteran Vanguards are better abite being more expensive.

Heavy: Stormraven i can't comment on cause ive never used one. The predator seems a little solitary and at 2000pts its going to get taken out quickly. Id take points from other places to get two with auto/las or if your in your face-y in mind a pair of vindicators.

Hope I could help you in anyway, and I do apologise if I appeared too critical.
 

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Ok, after consideration (and getting Death From The Skies) I've come up with the following list for some In your face gameplay.

HQ 175
Pedro Kantor

Is there any particular reason you use Pedro Kantor? Usually he is used in Sternguard-heavy list. I suggest you change this into a Librarian, because his psychic power can be used in more circumstances, not to mention saving up 75 points.

Troops 555
Scouts; Telion, ML, 3 Sniper Rifles
Tactical; ML, MG, Rhino
Tactical; ML, MG, Rhino
No comments here, though Scouts could use a camo cloak if you have points to spent.

Elite 605
Assault Terminators; TH&SS, Landraider Redeemer
Ironclad Dreadnought; 2 Heavy Flamers, Ironclad Assault Launchers

I suggest you change the Dreadnought into the Rifleman Dread, and/or add Sternguard Veterans in your army. Ironclad is too expensive, not to mention that flamer has low effective range. Sternguards also have a variety of ammunition type that you can use, to adapt to your situation better. You could also kit them out in combi-weapons if you want.

Rifleman Dread (2 x AC configuration) will also give you some limited anti-air and anti-tank capabilities.

Fast 350
Stormtalon; Skyhammer ML
Assault Squad; 2 Flamers, Sgt w/ Power Axe

I am never a fan of Assault Squad, they are too expensive, and they are useless against another army's CC units. I recommend changing it to other units, preferably more Predators. Vindicators can also be used, they have better attack but much lower survivability, as people tend to kill Vindicators on turn 1.

If you still have points left, bike squads could also be used.


Heavy 315
Stormraven; Lascannon Turret, Multi Melta, Hurricane Bolters
Predator; AC, Heavy Bolter Sponsons

As I suggested before, you can add a Predator here. Lone Predators will get blown up, quickly. I think you could also remove the hurricane bolters on the Stormraven, and use it for other things.

In this set up Kantor, the Assault Squad, and the Ironclad will ride in on the Stormraven in support of the Assault Terminators after they've gotten into combat.
The Predator will ride along the Landraider and support it as will the Rhinos with Melta Gun combat squads. The ML squads will hang back and fire at range into enemy armour/troops as need be.
Telion and his scouts will set up in cover and fire as need be to pick off opposing units.
Thoughts?u
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Well, lets go ahead and address the Pedro Kantor question real quick.
As an HQ unit he is the essential close combat choice. Granted, Lysander is a beast, but, I'm referring to Kantor's +1 attack he provides. Within 12" of him your Marines are gaining an additional attack for close combat purposes. This work decently when you send him in with an Assault Squad, but, Kantor is the master of the Crimson Fists 1st company as well, which is why Sternguard becoming scoring units and the +1 Attack works much better with the expensive Vanguard. Now, in an ideal world I would love to run a list that has Kantor and Lysander (best shooty commander with Bolter Drill) and 30 Sternguard in Rhinos as well as 30 Vanguard in an Assault Vehicle (Landraider). But, that would be hugely expensive and very un-doable at 2K.
 

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Well, lets go ahead and address the Pedro Kantor question real quick.
As an HQ unit he is the essential clove combat choice. Granted, Lysander is a beast, but, I'm referring to Kantor's +1 attack he provides. Within 12" of him your Marines are gaining an additional attack for close combat purposes. This work decently when you send him in with an Assault Squad, but, Kantor is the master of the Crimson Fists 1st company as well, which is why Sternguard becoming scoring units and the +1 Attack works much better with the expensive Vanguard. Now, in an ideal world I would love to run a list that has Kantor and Lysander (best shooty commander with Bolter Drill) and 30 Sternguard in Rhinos as well as 30 Vanguard in an Assault Vehicle (Landraider). But, that would be hugely expensive and very un-doable at 2K.
I think that close combat focus is not a really good option for Space Marines, because they can be overpowered quite easily, but other armies specialized units. You also don't mention the Vanguard Veterans on your list, and you also said that you use this list for all-out killing, so the benefit of Kantor's Chapter Tactics didn't come into account. Kantor himself is not a bad option, but I usually use him if I want to run a Sternguard-heavy list, which benefits from his Chapter Tactics.

In my opinion, Vanguards are bad unit for Space Marines, because they lack the punch of an Elite unit, and they are quite expensive. Unlike Sternguards, which I think is one of the best SM units.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I think that close combat focus is not a really good option for Space Marines, because they can be overpowered quite easily, but other armies specialized units.
No disagreement there, but, I'm hoping to use a sort of unconventional approach in these games. In all seriousness, Space Marines have close combat potential that is undersold by many.
You also don't mention the Vanguard Veterans on your list, and you also said that you use this list for all-out killing, so the benefit of Kantor's Chapter Tactics didn't come into account. Kantor himself is not a bad option, but I usually use him if I want to run a Sternguard-heavy list, which benefits from his Chapter Tactics.
Ok, at 2K or any lower point level the Vanguard are too expensive. The Vangurd are ttypically best equipped with Power Weapons which ups the cost for them that much more. Kantor's tactic did come into account in regards to the Assault Squad, Ironclad, and Assault Terminators.
In my opinion, Vanguards are bad unit for Space Marines, because they lack the punch of an Elite unit, and they are quite expensive. Unlike Sternguards, which I think is one of the best SM units.
Agreed, pprovisionally. Vanguard are, IMHO, more suited for Apocalypse games.
 
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