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Match 4- squeek vs Critta

1876 Views 18 Replies 9 Participants Last post by  Steel Nathan
Welcome Heretics! The first ever Fantasy Tactica Wars is officially under way! Eight competitors are ready to duke it out in the first round, and of course, we need you to vote and tell us why your choice should win. Once these matches have ended, only 4 people will be left standing. So good luck to everyone, play fair, don’t argue (too much), and have a good time reading all of the matches.
Now let’s get on with the battles!

Match 4- squeek vs Critta

Forest Ambush

-squeek will be taking the top table edge
-Critta will be taking the bottom table edge


Army Name: Papa Gribbly's HoT and spicy special brew

Special Notes
- No hidden units.


Hero 1: Herald of Nurgle - Papa Gribbly - GENERAL: 165
- Staff of Nurgle

Hero 2: Herald of Tzeentch - Bodg'it: 165
- Level 2
- Master of Sorcery
- Flames of Tzeentch

Hero 3: Herald of Tzeentch - Scarp'a: 160
- Level 2
- Master of Sorcery
- Winged Horror


Core 1: 16x Plaguebearers: 210
- Musician
- Standard

Core 2: 10x Pink Horrors: 120
- Level 1

Core 3: 10x Pink Horrors: 120
- Level 1


Special 1: 5x Flesh Hounds: 175

Special 2: 5x Flesh Hounds: 175


Rare 1: 6x Flamers of Tzeentch: 210

Army Total: 1500

Dice Table
Power Dice (+ Power Stones): 8 (0)
Dispel Dice (+ Dispel Scrolls) : 6 (00



Army Name: The Horror of Change

Special Notes
- None


Hero 1: Tz'math - Herald of Tzeentch - General: 165pts
- Wizard Level 2
- Flames of Tzeentch
- Spell Breaker

Hero 2: Hak'math - Herald of Tzeentch: 165pts
- Wizard Level 2
- Flames of Tzeentch
- Spell Breaker

Hero 3: Zzranth - Herald of Tzeentch: 140pts
- Wizard Level 2
- Flames of Tzeentch


Core 1: 10 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch: 120pts
-Hand Weapon
- Wizard Level 1

Core 2: 10 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch: 120pts
-Hand Weapon
- Wizard Level 1

Core 3: 10 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch: 120pts
-Hand Weapon
- Wizard Level 1

Core 4: 9 Chaos Furies: 108pts
-Hand Weapon


Special 1: 5 Flesh Hounds of Khorne: 175pts
- Hand Weapon

Special 2: 5 Flesh Hounds of Khorne: 175pts
- Hand Weapon


Rare 1: 6 Flamers of Tzeentch: 210pts
- Hand Weapon
- Flames of Tzeentch

Army Total: 1498pts

Magic Dice
Power Dice: 11
Dispel Dice: 8 (+2)

Good luck to both competitors. Once I receive the tactics from both players, I will unlock the match, post the tactics from both players, and everyone will be able to vote in this match.
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This match is now officially open for voting! Here are the tactics:

squeek said:
None of my casters require dice rolls as they are both MoS. Both HoTs know all spells in the Lore of Heavens.

Meh, what a horrid 1st draw (damn you Nathan! :p), my Plaguebearers will have to try to avoid Critta's Tzeentch units, but I have a cunning plan!

Since our armies are so similar it strikes me that denial of VPs and good use of terrain to dictate where and when combat and shooting occurs is crucial in this match. Critta's magic phase is stronger, but he is weaker in terms of numbers and close combat. I intend to setup a castle deployment in one corner of my deployment zone, aiming to keep LoS on parts of Critta's army, whilst ensuring some of his Horrors and HoTs are as far away as possible.

I will leave my Plaguebearer's until late in my deployment to ensure I can place them further away from flaming units, and will aim to use at least one unit to screen them from particularly risky foe. My Flesh Hounds and Flamers will be used to attack Critta's Horrors if they can get to them, or if Critta pushes forwards with his flamers and flesh hounds I will use them to pick them off in combined assaults. Bloody, but if I can keep them together I hope to get the upper hand.

My basic approach is to force Critta to push towards me due to my setup and better range. This should allow me to pick off weaker units at range and engage his units piecemeal and force instability tests at nasty modifiers.

My Plaguebearer's should end up with a 4+ ward for magic shooting thanks to the Celestial Shield, I intend to use them as an anvil unit for multi charging Critta's units once he brings his units to me. They lose regen from flaming attacks, but they are still plenty tough enough to deal with Critta's units in combat, and they are ideal for giving me some CR in combat.

The shooting phase should be quiet initially since Critta's range is only 18". Happily my HoN's Staff of Nurgle has a range of 24", I will be making good use of the increased range and casting it every turn possible. I expect Critta to have it high in his dispel list, but either way it is a useful item. If he dispels it I have more chance of getting the other spells through, if he ignores it (unlikely for a DoC player considering how nasty it is) then it has a fantastic chance of wiping out a lot of his models since it causes D6 S5 hits again and again until he passes a T test, which with his T3 Horrors isn't an easy.

Otherwise I intend to pick off the most dangerous targets first with my shooting, the Furies should die fast at T3 with the number of missiles I have, the T4 flesh hounds and flamers aren't so easy but will die to concentrated fire. I suspect he will attempt to outflank my army with his faster units, but castling should mean that I can control when and where he is able to attack my units.

Magic wise Critta may have more dice, but he only has access to the Lore of Tzeentch. Since his casters are all level 2 and can only use a maximum of 3 casting dice I expect him to want to swap out Bolt of Change and Tzeentch's Firestorm, due to their high casting values. This leaves him with 4 spells, 2 of which worry me more than the others. I will concentrate my DD on Glean Magic since that allows him to cast my spells and to a lesser degree Gift of Chaos, as it has the potential to do a lot of damage, but only situationally.

For my magic phase I intend to make good use of the spells in Lore of Heavens, initially my HoTs will be using Forked Lightning to attack Critta's units at range since it only requires the target to be in LoS. They will also attempt to cast Celestial Shield on any units that are at risk from shooting since the 4+ ward versus all shooting is useful here; probably the Plaguebearers and whichever unit is closest to the bulk of Critta's army, but this depends on set-up.

If the casters can't see Critta's units early on I will attempt to cast the Comet of Cassandra on a choke point between the trees where Critta is forced to move multiple units through. If I am lucky this may draw out a Spellbreaker (DoC dispel scroll), since it has the potential to be devastating. Once the armies are closer to each other I will use Portent of Far and Second Sign of Amul to allow me to re-roll key dice, and pick off any stragglers with my Forked Lightning.

My flying HoT will remain with his unit of Horror's initially to give them the ward save and protect him, but later he can be used to flank and rear charge weak units, particularly the Horrors, since his ability to fly gives him fantastic mobility. My Flames of Tzeentch HoT will remain with the Horrors and shoot at anything that moves! :p

In summary, I will castle, shoot at Critta whilst he is out of his range, and attempt to draw out dispels early on forcing him to engage me. Then I will engage his units with joint assaults to force nasty modifiers with his instability tests, whilst using the Lore of Heavens re-roll spells to give me better rolls at crucial moments and combats.

Right, I think I got a bit lucky with the deployment edge on this one, but we shall see :)

General spell preference will be:

All wizards will swap one spell for Flickering Fire, the only exception to this will be if I manage to roll boon + bolt of change or boon + tzeentch's firestorm in either of those cases I would ignore flickering fire.

I did a bit of photoshop jiggerypokery to see if the units would fit, then I realised I may as well just pretty it up.

Red = Hounds
Pink = Horrors + Herald
Blue = Flamers
Black = Furies

If I have any herald with gift of chaos he will be deployed with the centre unit of horrors, other than this, my general will be in the centre. The other herals with the spellbreaker will be deployed with the right hand unit. If any wizard rolls Boon + one of the big blasty spells, he'll go on the right instead.

The Plan
Right, the basic plan is this...

Horrors & Heralds will stay in their line, flanks anchored by the woods. If anything comes through any of the gaps in the woods, they will blast it with a mixture of the herald's flames of tzeentch and 11PD worth of flickering fire and whatever else I can muster from my spell rolls. Any flesh hounds willl be hit with the flames from the heralds, but I'll cast spells elsewhere if at all possible due to MR.
Target order if they get within spell range: Winged Herald if he leaves his unit, Flamers, Plaguebearers (lots of flaming attacks from spells and flames = no regen!), horrors, hounds

Flesh hounds will be sent against the matching units in Squeek's army, if they come down the flanks, I'll hit them head on trying to get the charge if possible, holding back if necessary, but with the aim of stopping them before they hit the squishy horrors.
If they come down the centre, I'll swing my hounds in
and try to hit them in the side.
Target order: Hounds, Flamers, Horrors, Plaguebearers

Flamers will march (if I get first turn) or move normally (if I don't and the wood is occupied) into the woods in front of them, from here they'll then move to the edge of the wood to march block and blast anything they can see with flames. They will try and stay out of the line of fire of the enemy horrors if at all possible unless they're shooting at them.
Target order: Flamers, Hounds, Horrors, Plaguebearers

Furies will try to be annoying and marchblock one or both units of fleshounds. They'll also attempt to get a rear charge on a unit of flesh hounds at the same time as they are being charged in the front with one of my units of hounds. If this looks like it's going to be impossible, I'll throw them into one of the units of horrors in the flank or rear.
Target order: Hounds with combined charge, Horrors, Flamers, Plaguebearers

How it might go horribly wrong
This assumes that the main bulk of squeeks force comes up the centre of the board with fleshounds as either the vanguard or on the flanks. If this doesn't happen it might go a bit wrong.

It's quite risky pitting hounds vs hounds, hopefully I won't lose both fights. Ideally if one of Squeeks hound units wins, my flamers, or the flames from one of my HoT's will be able to finish them off before they get much further.

I suspect that both sets of flamers will also end up in the woods, hopefully if I get first turn I can hand towards the back of the woods and get first shot, failing this, if Squeek gets into the woods first I'll send them in anyway and hopefully finish them off with spells from the horrors if they survive.

Anyways - this has already turned into an essay and I *really* need to do some painting so I'm going to leave it there.
i have to vote for squeek because he seems to have a better plan and perdicted exactly what critta would do while crittas tactics have nothing to do with what squeek plans to do
Bugger... I might need to roll a dice to "decide" who wins this...

Two god awful (for any opponent that is, not that their lists are bad) lists, each with their own strengths, and really countering their opponents effectively (as the lists are rather similar)

Hm... I'm just going to have to go with squeek. I know that there is no regen on the Plaguebearers thanks to the Flames, but there is enough to Magically counter the HoT from Critta's side (for the most part), and the rest is countered in the same way...

But the numbers on Squeeks side, if he can close and keep those furies away will win this day...

squeek (sorry Crit, it was 50/50)

(yes, 1 Daemon down, 2 to go =D)

I vote for abstain.

Abusing the range on lore of heavens is absolutely brilliant way to give demons a long range shooting option. This will force Critta to have to advance, giving squeek's flesh hounds a better chance of getting a charge, thus winning the fight against their equivalent units. Whoever wins the battle of the flesh hounds should be free to charge in and mop up what's left of the horror spam.

EDIT: Vote withdrawn
I seem to remember that you can try and infuence votes in these and you all seem to forget one important fact here, his long range Lore of Heavens spam isn't going to do *anything*.

I already have as many DD as he has PD. If he's outside of 18" that's his horrors casting out. So he's down to 6 PD, assumedly split 3 dice each to hit HoT's. I then get to roll 4DD against each of these with a good chance of dispelling them. Plus I have 2 spellbreakers on top of that, this won't be wasted on a comet of cassandra that I'm not planning on going anywhere near as I sit back and wait.

If he uses Comet of Cassandra he's pretty much just wasted a magic phase, assuming his level2 manages to get the 10-12+ needed to cast it, Ill just wait until my magic phase and dispel it with power dice. I then have 8DD to throw at his other HoT casting forked lightning.

All the while my flamers have a nice wood to hide in and pepper his castle with Flames of Tzeentch until he decides he's bored of getting shot and has to come towards me.

We've both gone for castles, he wants to break mine with magic, which with our comparative dice just isn't going to happen, I want to break his castle with my flamers, from the cover of the woods which negates his listed counter to them of jumping his hounds and flamers on them in a multi-assault as it'll just drag his hounds in woods limbo for several turns if he tries.

I honestly thought I had this one in the bag when I read both sets of tactics.

Inquisitor - How is Squeek castling and thinking I'm going to come to him, whilst I castle and think he's coming to me him "predicting exactly what I'll do?"

Vaz - I think I have the numbers here man, his LR magic is essentially nullified by my stupid amount of dispel, plus I have more troops than him when I finally break his castle.

Nowhere in my tactics does it say I'm advancing with anything but my flamers and furies, the flamers advancing in to woods to put pressure on Squeek to have to advance. The furies aren't going to fly into the middle of his army whilst he's castled up, and there's plenty of places for them to hide until my flamers force him to advance.
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I believe squeek had the upper hand in numbers - mainly because Skirmishers do jack really against ranked units without a combat unit to back them up. If they're hiding, and not supporting the Flesh Hounds. 3 more skirmishers compared to a fully ranked unit I'm afraid.

It seems as if both of you were being too tentative with it - it needs someone to take the bull by the horns. Straight charges would work out here. If squeek shields his Plaguebearers with the skirmish screen of Flamers, then he doesn't need to waste spells on shielding them.

I think squeek does have the upper hand - but it's down to his HoN and Plaguebearers to win. The odd spell that squeek will get through will proove to be troublesome than the Lore of Tzeentch... As I said it's too close to call without actually watching it... But I'm going to stick with my original vote and go for squeek - the added bonus of the Plaguebearers will prove more useful both in later rounds, and would be the deciding factor in this match - provided they close of course ;)

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vote: Squeek.

He seems to be holding all the answers in his tactics. Critta sadly failed to guess squeek's approach and is deployed badly to face his opponent in this particular match.
But, but, but... how does his flamers and flesh hounds facing off against my flamers, flesh hounds and furies equal him having the upper hand in numbers? Also, my flamers are going after his flamers, whatever he does with them, I get to jump out of the woods and get first shot... this will leave his flamers (about the only thing which worries my flesh hounds) pretty much dead in the water with any reasonable roll for number of shots. Leaving me with 2 x flesh hounds, furies and flamers vs some flesh hounds.

I honestly don't think the HoN or plaguebearers will ever get within range to cause me problems, and with me having nearly double the power dice to Squeek's dispel dice, and no spellbreakers on his side, coupled with their slow ass movement, they'll never get a chance to charge before they're destroyed.

I must agree both of us sitting back and waiting for the other was a bit annoying, especially as the next section for my "How it could all go horribly wrong" section was going to be to cover exactly that. Meh, that's the way the cookie crumbles, fair play to Squeek if he wins this one, the tactics were good, but I honestly think the tactics I've posted would beat it.

Also - I've got some suggestions for these fantasy tactica wars that could make the whole thing a lot less guess work and allow us to actually plan tactics closer to how we would in a proper game. Check out the tactica wars rules discussion thread in a bit.
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due to terrain advantage and the way he described things im gonna have to go with Critta on this one. his flamers will get first shot and probably mop up. the sitting and waiting approach of squeek will probably fail due to the magic phase being one big standstill. in this effect critta's attack plan will most definetly work. its really really close to call but the last bit of info from the flamers strategie from critta did it for me :)
well i vote for squeek

because his army seems to be more prepared for critta's army than critas is for squeeks.

also squeeks magic choice is very jammy, and he has more options in the magic phase than critta, even if critta has a ton of DD.

squeeks army will probaly castle better with the plaguebearers, flaming attacks or not.
oh, by the way critta-love what you did with the map.
Please can someone who has used the plaguebearers as a reason for Squeek to win please explain to me how these slow guys, who need to be in close combat to do anything offensive and who lose their main defensive bonus to flaming attacks when everything in my army other than the flesh hounds and furies has multiple flaming attacks and/or flaming spells are going to achieve anything other than dying before they make contact with my army?

So many people have mentioned them now that I'm starting to think I must have missed something.
The fact is that if you want to win the battle, you need to focus on them, or else they will become that little something that will turn the advantage to squeek. If you're just coping with the other units he has, there is little special attention given to the real units, it seems like a lose-lose situation.

Either they close, and do that damage to the Horrors etc, or you focus on taking them out of the battle (rest assured that magic targetting them will have dispelling priority).

If you focus on the Horrors, Flamers and Hounds, then eventually the Plaguebearers make their way to your Daemon lines, where the ranks and toughness will beat the Daemons. Also, Daemons can't flee, so that's another issue to overcome. Despite being weak to your Flaming attacks, they are also in the end a distraction similar to Marauders - ignore them, and they'll hurt you, or target them, and they'll let the rest of the stuff do it's damage. Really, squeek only needed 14 of them, to be even more efficient, and then either add in another Flamer or two, or some Furies, to improve his slow movement, and counter war machine.

But that's why I think that the Plaguebearers are the deciding factor.

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This is from my targetting priorities for the horrors, between each herald essentially being a flamer for shooting purposes, who can also cast flickering fire of tzeentch with 3 dice each turn, and the horror units also getting a dice to throw at flickering fire, I have no doubt that they have enough flaming firepower (and not only dispellable spells) to take out the plaguebearerers in the 3 turns it will take for them to get into combat with me. If they do make it to combat, I get to stand and fire with the flames of tzeentch on my herald in that unit, can then have another turn of magical assault the next turn from the remaining two unengaged units of horrors. At very worst case, I lose a unit of horrors to them.
Target priority of my Horrors said:
Target order if they get within spell range: Winged Herald if he leaves his unit, Flamers, Plaguebearers (lots of flaming attacks from spells and flames = no regen!), horrors, hounds
I can happily leave his horrors until last as I have the DD and scrolls to pretty much nullify them until I've dealt with the other threats.

I outnumber him in the hounds/flamers/furies scrap, his plaguebearers won't have a chance to get into it as they're too slow and both of our tactics have pointed towards it happening this way, but you used him outnumbering me for this crucial fight as a reason to vote for Squeek.

I seem to have the advantage in everything other than spell selection, which I feel is nullified by the fact that he'll get off one spell a turn if he's really lucky, I don't understand why everyone is voting for Squeek (nothing against you man, but I'm just trying to understand where I went wrong with these tactics!)

This'll be my last post in this thread, but I'm really, really confused now it might be just 'cos I'm ill, but god knows!
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I already have as many DD as he has PD. If he's outside of 18" that's his horrors casting out. So he's down to 6 PD, assumedly split 3 dice each to hit HoT's. I then get to roll 4DD against each of these with a good chance of dispelling them. Plus I have 2 spellbreakers on top of that, this won't be wasted on a comet of cassandra that I'm not planning on going anywhere near as I sit back and wait.
I wasn't aware that this is how horrors worked in their magic phase. Daemons is one of the army books I've never given a good read to. Given my ignorance I'm going to change my vote to abstain
I am happy whichever way people vote, I wasn't keen on facing Critta in the first round as I knew his army was a good counter to mine and he is very tactically astute. As Vaz has pointed out I was a little reticent about getting stuck in when I worked through the tactics, but obviously we would have to close at some point so I would envisage both armies getting stuck in in a real game.

Good luck Critta! :)
Yeah, best of luck man :) I was quite amused that we both ended up choosing to sit back and wait for the other to come to us :D
I wasn't aware that this is how horrors worked in their magic phase. Daemons is one of the army books I've never given a good read to.
To confirm this, a unit of horrors counts as a wizard, depending on the size of the unit, the wizard level goes up with set spells gained at each level. As Squeek and I both have small units of horrors, each unit is a level 1 wizard who knows the spell Flickering Fire of Tzeentch (which if you've read it is identical to the spell of the same name in the WoC tzeentch spell list).

If any of the units of horrors drops below 5 models, they cease to count as a wizard.
And this match is now officially closed! Thanks for everyone for voting, and you can expect the next round to pop up very shortly. :)
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