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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Welcome Heretics! The first ever Fantasy Tactica Wars is officially under way! Eight competitors are ready to duke it out in the first round, and of course, we need you to vote and tell us why your choice should win. Once these matches have ended, only 4 people will be left standing. So good luck to everyone, play fair, don’t argue (too much), and have a good time reading all of the matches.
Now let’s get on with the battles!


Match 3- Steel Nathan vs Gharof von Carstein


The Burnt Town


-Steel Nathan will be taking the top table edge
-Gharof von Carstein will be taking the bottom table edge

Steel Nathan

Army Name: Kari's Sand Knight's Army

Special Notes
- Sandhu will be the leading heriophant for the Sand Knights


HEROES

Hero 1: Kari, Tomb Prince of the Sand Knights: 192
- Flail of the Skulls
- Light Armour
- Chariot

Hero 2: Sandhu, Liche Priest of the Sand Knights: 165
- Heretic Jar
- Dispel Scroll


Hero 3: Isiah, Liche Priest of the Sand Knight's Casket of Souls: 330
- Dispel Scroll
- Casket of Souls


CORE

Core 1: Sandhu's Bowmen Regiment, 20 Skeleton Warriors: 180
- Bows
- Light Armour


Core 2: Bowmen Regiment, 20 Skeleton Warriors: 185
- Bows
- Light Armour
- Musician

Core 3: Sandhu's Calvary Support Regiment, 10 Skeleton Light Horsemans: 147
- Bows
- Musician


SPECIAL

Special 1: Kari's Chariot Regiment, 4 Chariots: 240
- Hand Weapons
- Champion
- Standered Bearer
- Mirage Standered


Special 2: Kari's Sand Monster, Tomb Scorpion: 85


RARE

Rare 1: Sand Knight's Casket of Souls: (included in Isiah's profile)
- Casket Guards: Great Weapons
- Casket Guards: Light Armour



Army Total: 1499



VS



Gharof von Carstein

Army Name: Ghoulish Crusade


Special Notes
- None


HEROES

Hero 1: Vampire - Gharof von Carstein
- General: 185pts

- Wizard level 1
- Dread Knight
- Infinite Hatred
- Book of Arkhan

Hero 2: Vampire: 185pts
- Wizard level 2
- Dark Acolyte
- Summon Ghouls
- Flayed Hauberk
- Black Periapt

Hero 3: Necromancer: 95pts
- Wizard level 1
- Extra Spell (Raise Dead, Vanhels Danse Macabre)
- Sceptre de Noirot


CORE

Core 1: 15 Ghouls: 128pts
- Crypt Ghast

Core 2: 15 Ghouls: 128pts
- Crypt Ghast

Core 3: 15 Ghouls: 128pts
- Crypt Ghast

Core 4: 5 Dire Wolves: 40pts

Core 5: Corpse Cart: 75pts

Core 6: Corpse Cart: 75pts


SPECIAL

Special 1: 6 Black Knights: 209pts
- Standard Bearer (Banner of the Dead Legion)
- Barding


RARE

Rare 1: 5 Cairn Wraiths: 250pts

Army Total: 1498pts

Power Dice: 5
Dispel Dice [Dispel Scrolls]: 4 [0]


Good luck to both competitors . Once I receive the tactics from both players, I will unlock the match, post the tactics
from both players, and everyone will be able to vote in this match.
 

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This match is now officially open for voting! Here are the tactics:


Steel Nathan's:
Steel Nathan said:
Wow, I do not like the map that I am really. And the table edge doesn't suit my needs as well. Oh well, I gotta use what I have I suppose. :)

The Casket itself would probably be a lot less useful where I'm at, not much area and LoS to be able to use the Casket of Souls against. I guess it would have to be deployed at the back middle of the top left area of the chart. It's probably the best area to get a good view of the map, although anything past the bottom middle ruins is pretty much safe from it, until they move up anyways. :wink:

Kari will obviously be joining the Chariots, as Sandhu will be joining Sandhu's Bowmen Regiment, deploying in front of the casket, left to right respectivly. The other bowmen regiment will be deployed beside the top right wall (at the left wall), while the Bow Horsemen will be at the top left building, beside the right wall of it. The Tomb Scorpion will use the "It Came From Below" somewhere in the middle area of the bottom left area, preferably near a Corpse Cart to get rid of some big things from Gharof's Army.

The Bowmen will be firing at the Ghoul bastards who try and come near me, as I do not like them... period! Sandhu will be using the Incarnation of Righteous Smiting and help his bowmen regiment shoot the crap out of anything that tries to come near them. When the Black Knights try to show up, I'll have everyone focus on them, try and have the Bow Horsemen shoot them when going around them, and Impact them with the Chariots. I can't see them lasting long against the Chariots and the Arrows, and probably the Casket of Souls as well (as that will most likely do some damage to them along).

I have no idea what the Wraiths are, or what they do, but they do not look like fun. I bet that the Black Knights will be coming after me first, so I'll take care of them as described above, then I'll focus on them. Just take them out with arrows and the Chariots, then that'll hopefull take them out (I have at least 60+ arrows firing at them, not a good sight. :grin:)

The Characters are a big concern as well. The General of the army will be focused as part of the Black Knight Squad, assuming that he is putting him with them anyways. The Necromancer will most likely be attacked by the Tomb Scorpion if I can get a good, clear shot at him (or if the Corpse Cart's are too much of a hassle for the Scorpion as well. The other Vampire will be focused on once all my other problems are dealt with already. If he decides to show up randomly while my attacks are being layed out, then I'll probably attack him with the Chariots and the Skeletal Horseman, assuming that they're all not occupied anyways.

I am hoping that the Casket will simmer down his army, as I paid for the damn thing anyways, and I get a bad map for my playstyle. But I can see it still being a great asset to my army, as I do not like those Vampires.... creepy things...

Good luck to you Gharof! Let's make this a fair fight!
Here are Gharof's spell rolls:

Hero 1 = 3
Hero 2 = 3 and 1 (6 was substituted for 1)


Gharof's:

Gharof Von Carstein said:
for my first hero = 2,3,4,1,5,6
second hero = 2,3,4,5,1,6


seeing as steel nathan and you guys all went uber on your lists and i didnt (no blood knights) ;) :p

I guess i have no choice but to deploy behind obstacles as much as possible to hide from the casket. which he will probably field in the middle of the grid as much as possible.

the houses will be used by him for shooting and by me to my advantage. my ghouls will probably run up from building to building hiding from the caskets light.

I'm keeping my general on dread knight inside my ghoul core. the black knights are on their own chariot, hierophant hunting. If i can charge my general out of the unit into his chariots solo i will. Str 7 breaks his toys

my vampires and necro on corpsecart will join up with my ghoul blocks. the other corpse cart will be hiding from sight as much as possible. meanwhile the wraiths take the right flank (more buildings here, more use for ethereal movement) He doesnt have any magical shooting and his tomb scorpion dies when trying to get into combat with any of my ghouls. If it surfaces soon ill probably get into combat with it to hide myself from shooting and whoop its ass due to outnumbering and strong vampire hits.

The plan is to hit that casket with the ethereal guys. his chariots will probably try to intercept but will not be able to. my necro will zombie screen them. forcing the charge and hoping that he is gonna overrun into a building (im good at tilting zombies so people have to overrun into terrain (big fun with chariots as they die from it) my general in the black knight unit has one mission and that is to get the charge on his chariots and tomb prince and of course hierophant hunting. Hierophant hunting is up to the dire wolves as well, but they will mostly die from screening the black knight unit. Ill be keeping a corpse cart close for a possible ASF on my knights or dire wolves.

This terrain is truly terrible for him. i can go complete urban warfare on him making most of his shooting units utterly useless. not only does he only hit on 5s he only wounds on 5s as well due to ghoul toughness.

If i do get into combat and he tries to match me dice for dice in the magic phase ill suck his DD away due to spamvocation. ill use my miasma for ASF to draw out his last dispel dice and than use the book of arkhan to get a critical charge or ASF and hatred in a critical battle (like say the one against the casket or his tomb prince/hierophant)

after the hierophant goes, and/or the casket is toast its a straight up mop up situation, he cant sustain his efforts to keep me at bay. the leadership of my troops isnt that low that his casket will be utterly devastating. and basically due to terrain hell be forced to throw his chariots into chokepoints while futily trying to maximise sight on his casket. I can go from building to building eliminating him at my disclosure hiding from sight and eventually getting that charge on his casket, utterly destroying it with either my black knights or my wraiths.

seeing as i have the lower side of the field which i expected that helps me. wraiths go right and seek building cover always. perhaps even swing to the upper right building to than move through it for a eventual vanhels charge on his casket which im sure will be fielded in the middle between the buildings for max view. the ghouls and carts still hide and ill be using his units to shield me from view of the casket while i get into combat with them. ghouls will also be used to flush his archers out of buildings, which im sure he cant ignore to do. seeing as TK dont get stand and shoot ill probably autowin against his infantry. vamp with dread knight will still try to get a lone flank charge on his chariots preferably with a corpse cart or 2 near to get that asf. raising happens early and one dice so i can spamvocation my units up. this terrain is so sick for me and so bad for him he wont be able to utilise his full move meaning i can attack and destroy him at my leisure. if his hierophant goes walkabout ill probably try to capture it with my dire wolves. if it sticks close to the casket and the other one its a nice first charge target for my wraiths :)
 

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i see that there is a contradictory situation in my strategy. the vamp general is with ghouls as mentioned first. the second thing was just a slip of the keyboard fingers :)

good luck to you nathan and lets let the rest decide (although i was soooo right about that damn casket :D)

getting double gaze of nagash is gonna be downright deadly. id rather like to see your shit get blown up :D
 

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Oops forgot to vote when I posted it :p

I am going to vote for Gharof. I think Nathan was unlucky with the map and since he doesn't know what Wraith's are, he doesn't really have have a plan for dealing with them! :) I think Gharof has a good idea of how to win the match, picking his fights to his advantage and using the terrain to really put a crimp on Nathan's tactical options.
 

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I'm going to vote for Steel Nathan, after some thought - again it was another close one, and I'm sure that had the map been a different one, Nathan would have a clear upper hand - particularly should it have a hill in it.

However, it doesn't so Nathan will have to make the most of the Castle, but leave the LOS open to the Casket, so in a sense he has two castles - which by his description sounds like he's done.

The Tomb Scorpion will prove to be decisive against the Corpse Carts and the Ghouls, and by Burying it, helps out tremendously. If the Tomb Kings can keep the Replenishing up, then they will hold the Black Knights in place long enough for the Killing Blow of the Tomb Scorpion to do its dirty. Despite many poisoned attacks, a rear charge from a Tomb Scorpion with Killing Blow is not something much can withstand - I've lost better and larger units to Tomb Scorpions, so thinking that Ghouls will do diddly squat, especially without a Cart to boost them, or a Vampire to Kill (and Nathan, I'm sure, is clever enough to keep it away from a Vampire) is incredibly naive.

The Dire Wolves have no defence against the Casket, so they're goners. With the Chariots used as a counter to the Ghouls, they're very effective, even if against the Corpse Cart boost - 4D3+4 hits will hurt.

60 Bow shots (allowing for Double Shoot, that is) will be more than enough to wittle down the numbers of Crypt Ghouls - 60 shots, 20 hits, 10 of which kill a Ghoul (Poisoned Attacks still hurt Undead, IIRC), and then 3 wound. That's a unit a turn. Even if the Double shoot is dispelled, that's 7 autokilled, and another 2 or 3 wounds.

One thing that can't be done, is to put the Necromancer on the Corpse Cart. It actually HAS to be bought as a Mount, not a Core Choice, so the Corpse Cart can't join the unit.

The raising of troops may be an issue, but I think that it won't be too much of an issue. Spamming Invocation won't work against the Dispels that Steel has, and the critical times that must be got off (Sceptre, Book of Arkhan, etc) will be dispelled for that time.

No, the Tomb Kings can and, average (i.e. No unlucky) rolling permitting, will win, should the dice be average.



 

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This is a toughy- if G can get his waiths into the CoS that will be good for him, but in order to do so must put them in LoS of it. the 60 shots a turn will almost certianly hurt the ghouls, more than can be rasied up again in all likley hood. the map hurts steel quite a bit with limited movement and LoS, but he can easily pick off those units that do wander into the klling zone-which they will have to at some point (although they may get into combat the same turn). G's force is also light on the ground, but can be summoned up to strength.however Steels shooting (and TK shoting is quite potent-and i play dwarfs!) is more than likly to tip the battle in his favour.

taking into account the list, tactics and map my choice is Steel Nathan.
 

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I vote for Gharof

With their skirmishing and high movement, this is a great map for the cairn wraiths. If they can get a charge off on the casket they should be able to win that fight. It's going to take all of Nathan's archers just to deal with the ghouls, the tomb scorp can deal with one threatening target, but with wraiths, black nights, and two corpse carts, Gharof just has too many dangerous targets. I think Gharof's bound spells will help push him over Nathans' magic defense, and if he can zombie tarpit the chariots Nathan is really in trouble, The TKs just have too much invested in shooting and no real anvil.
 

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your wrong a necromancer doesnt have to buy a corpse cart as a mount. he can be just mounted on it yes or no. it doesnt say anywhere that i need to specifically state it in my list and i stated it in my tactics. hence the necro is on the cart in the ghoul unit :) and that casket isnt going to do so much dmg due to everything in 12" can use the LD of my general which is still 7. btw mork i dont need to put the wraitsh in LOS of the casket. they will prolly just float through a building at the casket and ill force everything on vanhelsing them against it. that casket will be toast. not to mention every clear shot it get its gonna get gaze of nagashed :) if nathan doesnt block his own LoS with the rest of his forces. if he deploys them anywhere else a big ol' zombie screen will keep them there. thats why this terrain is so terrible for him. he has to choose, either maximise LoS on that thing or keep his forces close together. he cant do both and so cant deal with my threats.
 

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It does. It says that he may purchase a Corpse Cart as a mount

Vampire Counts, Page 90, Heroes, Necromancer, Mounts
Nightmare - XXXpts
Corpse Cart - See page Page 93 for Cost and Options

It only states on Page 93 that it can be used as Mount, as it is a new kind of unit that isn't covered by the rules. Hence, it must be declared as part of your options. Could you please point out the rule that allows you just to put your Necromancer on it, as if joining a unit? As it's a mount, it MUST be included in the Characters costs, and hence the armylist. You can't just decide to use it - it's like going to a tournament, and realising that your army won't win against your opponent and changing it from say Dwarves to High Elves.

The Necromancer can join the same unit as the Corpse Cart, but it still may not mount it, unless bought as a mount.

Nathan can use LOS - longlines or archers will have LOS to at least one unit, and hence the whole unit can shoot. If you raise zombies in front, they're getting the full blast of the Casket. It's typical to be over confident with a so called 'Power build', but unfortunately, the sheer firepower will be able to counter it. Not to mention his tactics are the ananthema to yours - and there's little that can be done.

And to Nagash it, that means you need LOS - that Dispel Scroll will block the cast and then voila, you've CoS'd.

If you can ever charge, that means you need LOS to it - and be sure to expect dispel dice to be drawn, (as said Long archer lines will have LOS to one unit wherever it is), and Raising dead won't be as effective as you hope. If Nathan is clever with the Dispels, you'll be left in LOS - as to Vanhel Charge, you still have to have LOS. Don't count on Ethereals blasting through a Casket - expect the opposite.

Casket and Tomb Scorpion are the nastiest things in that list, and I'm afraid there isn't any real counter, other than saying that you will get a Vampire to deal with one, and Vanhel charge the Wraiths into the other. But you've discounted the fact that Nathan is not going to put his Scorpion anywhere near a Vampire, and you still have to have LOS to charge the Casket, and then that the spells may be dispelled.

Nathan has this one.



 

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yet you forget my ghouls can go from building to building. there will almost be no shooting. this terrain is his downfall. open field he would have probably worn me down i have to agree. but not here. simply because he has to clump together to get LoS has little room to manouvre his chariots and his casket is LoS blocked from the get go. most of my army can march up uninhibited by his casket due to zombie screens, if i get those zombies. let alone if i can get the zombies vanhelsed into the casket he will not be able to use it for most of the game! these are easy cheap and totally ignore his shooting on the rest of my guys. if i screen his other units with zombies the zombies fall OUT of LoS with the casket, i can divert his chariots into the mid building this way. open field your right vaz. this field your wrong. basically i could keep zombie screening the rest of his units getting flank charges with black knights and wraiths (wraiths he cant even deal with) while the rest marches up to get that stinky casket. if my wraiths dont get there first that is. his scorpions have no choice but to get near a vampire. there are no other targets to hit but the carts and those are kept close to the rest. sure he can get smart on dispel. yet he cant take everything on. ill save the book for a critical moment. if the ghouls get into combat after building hopping he has the carts to deal with as well. i seriously dont know. i think the terrain is such a big disadvantage to him i can pull this off. i will however agree its gonna be close.
 

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No - Long Lines = Wide Field of vision. The terrain doesn't block LOS, as it is either a Building, or it is a Ruin. If it was a wood, then yes, I'd say it did block LOS. But as they aren't, provided LOS can be obtained (either to the building, or one model in the unit), then Steel Nathan can, and will shoot them.

The Casket can easily be positioned for area denial - and is the BEST unit in the Game at it - and you have to come and get it.

Zombie Screens can be dealt with until it comes to needing to Vanhel your units. And if you're insistant on making sure your get your units there, you're going to need to need to put a lot of dice into making sure they get there.

You have 2 guaranteed Vanhels a turn - one is Power Level 3, which has a 17% chance of not working for the rest of the battle, and it requires 2 dice to cast, so that means you have the possibility of getting off 4 Vanhels - of which you may want to use to dispel double shoot, etc, or Re-raise dead, so you could end up with just 2. You also need to cast on an 8+ - above average on two dice. After all, how many times do people pass Ld8 tests?

Zombies - Leadership 2? Casket of Souls = good bye. Crypt Ghouls aren't too bad either - unless Snake eye or 3 is rolled, you're taking wounds. Using your armies Leadership? Ld7 is nothing to write home about, when you're capable of taking 7 wounds with no armour save allowed. Wraiths, if you're using to target his CoS must have LoS, which you keep forgetting, and Dancing your way towards him will only mean he will let you have LOS, and in return, halve the strength of the unit. Not to mention the Tomb Guards attacks are magical - combined with the CoS, and Sekhubi's Vengeance, you're taking hits like nobodies business. Don't underestimate the Casket.

And please, don't tell me my opinion is ever wrong. My facts could be wrong (in this case, they're not), but my opinion never is.



 

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my apologies, i dont have the right to do that, your right. id very much like to play this battle for real do. so many things would go differently IMO. not to mention i think i goofed from the beginning not going for a power list at 1500. ah well we will see how it rolls.
 

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I think people are overestimating the ability of the terrain-yes, it is quite a bit for a fantasy game, but enough to provide wide angels(or angles-can not spell/be bothered to look it up) on probaly everywhere.
 

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Please don't post things like this Vaz. This is an event we're trying to pull off here, not a burnfest. If you want to post shit like this, then do so in the Off Topic. Thanks
-Steel

Wide angels indeed. *sagely nod*​

Heh - sorry Steel and Fist ;)



 

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I can not belive you did that.

anyway, no mocking of my dyspraxia or i will get into a hissy fit. and you wont like me when i am in a hissy fit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I think people are overestimating the ability of the terrain-yes, it is quite a bit for a fantasy game, but enough to provide wide angels(or angles-can not spell/be bothered to look it up) on probaly everywhere.
The term would be Obtuse Angles. Anything past 180 degrees, I forget the term for that. :)

Vaz: Let's try and keep that crap out of here please. :eek:k:
 
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