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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Right, it's time for another quest, and things are looking up! Now for those of you who followed last year’s hilarity you will realize that I don’t exactly take 40k seriously. However that being said, I am no pushover and I can be a right git at times! Just ask the players who have bad mouthed me during a game or annoyed me! Lol

That being said I was an advocate of page 6 (in 4th ed) and I am now an advocate of page 2. I am here to have fun! I don’t care if I win or lose, as long as I have fun and God help you if you fuck up my good mood!!!

Remember, as a Buddhist, I am not allowed to kill any living creature, however that being said…. You don’t need Knee caps to live!!

Anyways, this year I thought it would be different. There’s a new guard codex about to come out and everything is shiny and new(ish). So I thought to myself. Why not for a change take a slightly better army. Why not try something which doesn’t involve my taking the worst possible army I could think of!!

Now Jez and Katie have already seen this list. I told them that I wasn’t going to post it. However thanks to Bols this morning posting an article with basically everything I was planning on doing in it, well it doesn’t make fuck all difference now!

So here it is with a small commentary of the units and why they are being taken!


First thing to say is that it's a Tzeentch based guard army;-


Command Squad

Straken
All c/c/w command squad
Regimental standard

160pts


Now This is straight forward. Not only is Straken the best choice for a chao's demogogue (rules wise). He is a BEAST! He's an Imperial Guardsman who can kill a Landraider! Thats good enough for me.


Witch Hunter Inquisitor Lord

Power Weapon, bolt pistol, Flag, Divine Pronouncement
2x Acolytes with shotguns
1x Warrior with shotgun

115pts


I really shouldn't have to tell you what this guy is for! Hopefully i can get his command squad killed off pretty early.


Priest

Evisorator

60pts


Another Demogogue style character. He will lead the conscripts.


Battle Psyker Squad

Extra psykers

110pts

Battle Psyker Squad

Extra psykers

110pts


Okay for anti tank but you will probably know what else they are for.


Callidus Assassin

120pts

Just wrong but funny


Infantry Platoon Command

Power Weapon, Flamer

50pts

Infantry Squad

Meltagun

60pts

Infantry Squad

Meltagun

60pts

Infantry Platoon Command

Power Weapon, Flamer

50pts

Infantry Squad

Meltagun

60pts

Infantry Squad

Meltagun

60pts

Conscript Platoon

80pts


The main meat of the army. The conscripts will be modelled as mutants and everything else will be chaos-like!


2x Vendetta’s

260pts


My main Anti tank and can provide some much needed movement.


2x Hydra’s

150pts

1500pts on the nose

Origionally i was going to take autocannon units but i came to the conclusion that there was no point to them. Hydras are IMO much better. (Tey could even annoy eldar players and thats what life is really all about!)


So, here it is. Over the next couple of months i will revisit the Blog with pictures and updates as the units get painted. For now, i'm off to find a model to use as Straken! lol










 

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Which heat do you intend to go to?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Which heat do you intend to go to?

Hey mate,

I've not decided yet, but lets face it! At the speed i paint it will probably be heat 3! lol

Shame really coz a lot of the flame on guy's are going to heat 1 and 2!
 

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I'm off to heat 3, as I have a couple of buddies to meet there. It would be great to have game if you do go.
 

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Really looking forward to this new (I take it, it is brand new converted models, loss count of the guard armies you have hahaha) Imperial Guard Martin.

Are you going to aim for the painting side of thing that the GT??

Also the list look pretty cool..... but where the hellhound :p

But again looking forward to this project. Your pass Guard armies have been cool from the =][= intro Guards to your golden armour bodyguards.

IP

ps: If your needing any spare Guard bits, I'm currently clean my bits boxies out. Lot of Guard goods, ether tell me by PM or next time your in GW Falkirk.
 

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I'm planning on heat 3, again due to being a slow painter.

Not sure about the army to be honest, though it looks entertaining. Suggest you drop the witch hunter toys and get tanks.

Vendettas look like a huge asset to have. All those lascannons, plus the ability to take troops to objectives late game. Of course, they will be shot back at a fair amount.

Oh, and buy some guns for your little IG dudes. It's not really fair to just feed them to the enemy. At least give them hope.
 

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Euhm wouldnt a Culexus (mr bighead) Assassin be alot more intresting in this army MarzM?
20 psykers + Bighead gun = epic killyness:laugh:
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Euhm wouldnt a Culexus (mr bighead) Assassin be alot more intresting in this army MarzM?
20 psykers + Bighead gun = epic killyness:laugh:
Well......I get your point. The Culexus with 19 psykers (not everybody in the battle squad count) would be...... interesting!

However the con's out weigh the pro's in this case. Having all my squads leadership 7 being the main one however the bitch has a fair few tricks of her own when it comes to the battle squad. She can kill an Ork Nob unit without getting into combat with them and they get no save at all!!
 

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Well......I get your point. The Culexus with 19 psykers (not everybody in the battle squad count) would be...... interesting!

However the con's out weigh the pro's in this case. Having all my squads leadership 7 being the main one however the bitch has a fair few tricks of her own when it comes to the battle squad. She can kill an Ork Nob unit without getting into combat with them and they get no save at all!!
Isnt it only like "within 12" for LD reduction? To me that seems like a well of epic cheese waiting to be emptied. That bighead assault 20 gun will eat those nobs too:p
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Had an interesting thought this morning during a discussion with my flat mate. He is on record as being a Chao's Space Marine in the Alpha Legion. (During the Fall of Cadia he was called Alexandros and was credited with causing havoc by GW in that campaign (he worked for GW in the Glasgow store at the time)).

Now he suggested that it would be cooler to do a traitor guard army working for the Alpha Legion. Hmmmm i thought, that would be as welcome to the Imperium as a fart in a spacesuit!

So i went after it like a dog chewing toffee! I received a wee PM from Someguy (not some guy but actually Someguy)! He suggested a different tact, i don't thing this was quite what he meant!

Now for those of you who were aware of my last UKGT guard army, you will remember that it was manoeuvrable (sort of) and and hit hard (chocolate biscuits at the ready) and that the motto of this army was Strike First; Strike Hard; Strike Deep:

However the motto of my new list would appear to be Operation Bukkaki: Just stand there and take it in the face!

So here we go again (on my own..do..do..Goin' down the only road I've ever known!!!! Aaagh..... less Whitesnake!!!!!!!)




Command HQ

Command
Meltagun 2x
Standard
Medic
Creed





Troops 1

Command
Plasmaguns 3x
medic


Squad 1
Heavy Bolter
Grenade Launcher


Squad 2
Heavy Bolter
Grenade Launcher


Squad 3
Autocannon
Grenade Launcher


Squad 4
Autocannon
Grenade Launcher


Troops 2

Command
Plasmaguns 3x
medic
Chenkov

Squad 1
Lascannon
Plasmagun


Squad 2
Lascannon
Plasmagun


Squad 3
Lascannon
Plasmagun


Squad 4
Lascannon
Plasmagun


Troops 3

Command
Flamer 3x
medic


Squad 1
Flamer
Powerweapon
Commissar Powerweapon

Squad 2
Meltagun
Powerweapon


Squad 3
Flamer
Powerweapon
Commissar Powerweapon

Squad 4
Meltagun
Powerweapon


Well there it is. I think this is a very survivable army. Most of the army can be stubborn or fearless. It will hopefully rally a lot and it still has a few tricks. I can't wait to see my opponents face when a 42 man unit outflanks with 4 power weapons!!

Now off to get the models ready to go into my local workshop and shoot their load! lol
 

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I sometimes feel like doing a "Tactica Apostrophe" article. This will not stand!

Anyway...

However the motto of my new list would appear to be Operation Bukkaki: Just stand there and take it in the face!
It's a cool motto. I worry that this is an indication of your continued interest in fluff and character, rather than winning games of 40k. This is a sign of weakness.

On the other hand, it's also a strategy... of a kind. Build a tough army. Cool. The result is a far better army than your original in my opinion. I am in no way tempted to send you a PM so long that it goes over the 5000 character limit, relating to this army. Instead, I propose a series of minor-ish tweaks to improve efficiency, though I'm sticking to my well-tried strategy of wearing you down with unnecessarily long posts. I'm working on a tactica type thing for IG infantry, and using this as a dummy run.

Good stuff is as follows: you have got a bunch of guys and some good leadership for them. You have a bunch of guns. Great.

Now to the toughness thing. There are at least three things to consider that will make an army tough, as follows:

  1. Most basically, it's difficult to kill. It has a bunch of guys, or your guys are very tough individuals, or something like that.
[*]It kills the things that threaten it before they are able to do much damage.
[*]It has redundency. No units are easy targets for your opponent to take out. Your opponent has to kill every last guy before he's safe.
[/LIST]

I think you are doing well on point 1. You have a lot of little dudes and they will tend to not run away, so your opponent will have to kill them. Points 2 and 3 could use some attention I feel.

On point 2, sometimes you should take non-tough units to make your army as a whole tougher (don't worry, I'm not going to start with some kind of "less is more, use your weakness as strength" kind of bollocks). No, what I mean is that you can take some disposable hard-hitting units to nuke down major threats to your army. These guys may well die, but by the time they have done so they will have saved many others. For example, a heavy weapons team with 3 lascannons can take away your opponent's obliterators or land raider. It's a soft squad but it makes an impact quickly.

For point 3, I think the only weakness is your command squads, particularly your command HQ actually. Infantry IG can be significantly improved by orders and Creed is amazing at this. He should not be standing within 6" of a land raider full of assault terminators at any time. His place is inside a chimera, shouting at other people 24" away to do things, so he will not require a melta gun in his retinue.

Likewise your command squads with 3 plasma guns worry me. They look like they will spend time within 12" of the enemy, rapid firing plasma into them. Now don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of rapid firing plasma guns, but it's not a job for an educated man.

I think chimeras are great for command teams. For a start, the chimera actually has a respectable amount of firepower for its cost but it also keeps your officers warm and dry, and stops people from shooting them dead. You can use it to drive to objectives and to illuminate targets in the dark with its searchlight, for your entire army to shoot at. I do see where you are going with having 0 vehicles but actually I think these things are good enough to make a strong case for bringing the tanks back in.

I personally like lascannons in command teams. I like how your command hq can get one at better bs, for the same price as your basic goons pay, and the way it can zap stuff quietly without disturbing your officer when he's on the phone to his subordinates. Also you don't really lose out on shooting when it fires at a tank, since you are losing two lasguns and a las pistol.

Speaking of which: One vox caster per command squad and in one of your infantry squads can be a good idea, though not all squads need them. Then everyone gets the benefit if you join the squads together and you just use the vox squad for most orders the rest of the time.

For the same reason I think one commissar per platoon is cool but I don't think you need more than that.

By the way I do think that combining infantry squads can often be a good idea even when not playing annihilation, and you should consider it. Your big "assault" platoon could actually be pretty scary on the charge if it bunched up and Creed used his order on it. You may actually be able to beat stuff up if you have 5 or 6 power weapons at strength and initiative 4. Such a unit may be the place for a priest.

The rest of the time, even the generic orders like "First rank, FIRE..." can be interesting when they turn 40 lasgun shots into 80. A commissar and vox will virtually guarantee that these orders work.

I think it's worth thinking about weapons too. Heavy weapons first.

I would always give an infantry squad a heavy weapon. They don't cost you much at all and every shot counts if you have plague marines in rhinos coming towards you. It's no good to have a whole platoon which can't really do anything at range. Also if you are being attacked you would actually be better off using this platoon as a second rank to counter-charge with, rather than having it receive the intial hit. You get furious charge from Creed, which makes a dramatic difference. If they are going to be a little way back, they definitely need longer ranged guns.

For IG, I see the default weapons as autocannons and lascannons. I think the missile launcher is too many points, not enough of a difference compared with the lascannon. The autocannon costs the same as the heavy bolter and is simply a far better weapon. I see no reason to tie your squad to anti-personnel when, for a tiny loss in effectiveness against T3 targets, you can get the ability to take out transports and even quite heavy tanks.

For special weapons I think you have it right with grenade launchers and plasma guns. However, I think you may be bringing too many plasma guns (not that plasma guns are bad, but 10% of your total points are spent on them!) and you might find it more efficient to spend some of those points elsewhere. If you lost the plasma and melta guns from your command squads you could get all 3 squads a lascannon instead and buy an autocannon for each of your unarmed squads. That's a melta gun and 6 plasma guns vs 3 lascannons and 4 autocannons. I think the heavy weapons are better because they kill the enemy sooner. Kill the rhino in its deployment zone, not after it has dropped off the plague marines.

I think you could use some kind of a counter-charge unit. It's all well and good if your enemy charges your platoon and stops, but if all that means is your platoon is locked and can't shoot while enemy reinforcements pile in, that's not so good. I think there may be something to be said for rough riders as they are dirt cheap, and dirty in many additional ways if Creed gives them furious charge. It's only a shame that Creed can't make them scout. Alternatively, splashing power weapons around your infantry squads may allow them to do the same thing anyway.

Maybe, on a totally different topic, it would be worth getting a unit to play at outflanking to take objectives. A veteran squad in a chimera, say.

I've obviously told you a bunch of things that cost points and you can't do all of them. To mitigate this to some extent, I think you can probably manage without Chenkov and lose a commissar or two.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
It's a cool motto. I worry that this is an indication of your continued interest in fluff and character, rather than winning games of 40k. This is a sign of weakness.
Who the fuck are you? Darth fuckin' Vader? lol " You are weak old man!"

I'm sticking to my well-tried strategy of wearing you down with unnecessarily long posts.
Ahhh see, i have finally lulled you into a false sense of security! My final victory is at hand! I mean, you're like a James Bond bad guy! Stop explaining the master plan devised to take over the Earth and just fuckin' shoot me! lol

It has redundency. No units are easy targets for your opponent to take out.
Well as long as you are going to spell things wrong, i'm going to put random apostrophes in random places!! lol (in truth i didn't notice until i ran it through my spell checker!

For example, a heavy weapons team with 3 lascannons can take away your opponent's obliterators or land raider. It's a soft squad but it makes an impact quickly.
The problem is that this squad might hit hard but it goes down easier than a $2 hooker with no legs!

Katie actually came up with an interest one that i'm looking into. The idea of a Vet squad with Lascannon and 3x plasmas with cloaks. Not exactly cheap but they might make their points back!

Creed is amazing at this. He should not be standing within 6" of a land raider full of assault terminators at any time. His place is inside a chimera, shouting at other people 24" away to do things, so he will not require a melta gun in his retinue.
Nope, nope, nope, nope, no! This seems to be a common misconception. It specifies explicitly in the rules that an officer cannot shout orders while embarked in a transport vehicle. It's the same affect as shouting into Jenna Jameson's naught bits! All you get is echo!! (admit it, the thought of first rank fire, second rank fire and Jenna Jameson is going through your head right now) *edit* MarzM is wrong!!! lol

I think chimeras are great
So do i. However if i have a couple of tanks, they will get taken out very quickly. I feel if i were going to have Russes then chimeras would be fantastic because the Russes draw so much firepower. However as you pointed out i do like the idea of all infantry so Hmmmm, i'm not too sure.

personally like lascannons in command teams. I like how your command hq can get one at better bs
only the HQ command have better Bs. The infantry command still suck of guard!

For the same reason I think one commissar per platoon is cool but I don't think you need more than that.
This was in case i was going to run them in 2 units. However one could be dropped for a priest.

I would always give an infantry squad a heavy weapon.
Even if they move more often than a pikey caravan site?

I think you could use some kind of a counter-charge unit.
Well Jez and i were talking about Rough Riders and i do have a pile of cold ones for the job!

It's only a shame that Creed can't make them scout.
You know he can, right?

I think you can probably manage without Chenkov and lose a commissar or two.
He's simply there to make stuff stubborn and then rally it if it does run.
Once again, thanks for the input. :goodpost:

I'm going to run the list a couple of games and see how it gets on. I'll make changes then based on my findings!

Cheers again
 

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Actually Marz, Officers can issue Orders out of a Chimera, as it is a Mobile Command Vehicle, and is an exception to the usual restriction. Also, don't forget my suggestion of Vets with nothing but a lascannon. :good: A 10 wound lascannon for 90 points is good stuff!
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
Actually Marz, Officers can issue Orders out of a Chimera, as it is a Mobile Command Vehicle, and is an exception to the usual restriction. Also, don't forget my suggestion of Vets with nothing but a lascannon. :good: A 10 wound lascannon for 90 points is good stuff!
Yup, found it! Soz to all. I think it's stupid that it says in the orders rules that you cant use them in a vehicle and then in the chimera rule you can! lol

Oh well!
 

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It is an odd rule. You can't issue orders in a transport, except your only transport has a rule that gets round it. Waste of ink. I guess it matters if they get into a rhino somehow, or a super heavy thing.

On the rough rider scouting thing, I'm pretty sure they can't. Creed's rule applies to a single infantry or vehicle unit but rough riders are cavalry, not infantry. You will see that each unit now says what its unit type is somewhere in the army list. This isn't really a problem for rough riders if you want them to countercharge anyway, it just stops you coming on from the side.

On the other hand Creed can give the scout rule to ogryns or allied grey knight terminators. He can make a squad of vets or sisters outflank in their transport, which might make it worth having an astropath.

The question of whether or not to bring tanks is not easy. Chimeras are good for HQs, which are in danger in all-infantry forces - just as they are more useful with more infantry to order around. Creed in particular may as well have a big target painted on his head. As you say though, the other guy won't have too hard a time taking out two or three chimeras so maybe it becomes worth adding some heavy armour.

I think it's a good plan to do some playtesting. It's a good time to start thinking about GT lists, which will probably go through several changes before the actual tournament.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Deffo mate,

This year i am actually going to practise before i go. Last yeat i think i had 6 games top with my army before i went and i think 3 wins, 3 losses with me losing to one annoying person wasn't bad!

I think this list will go through many changes. The key is to stay away from the red herring's that are in the codex!

IMO Vendettas are the biggest one. I had 2 originally, however now i'm not so sure of them! On paper they are the bee's knees. 40k, however isn't played on paper (not since rogue trader anyway!lol Is it just me or does anyone else remember the cardboard cutouts!!)
 

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Well ok, you got me.

Of course, if your officer decides to get into an aircraft and fly away from the platoon they may be disinclined to follow his orders. I suppose it makes some sense if he can't issue orders in this situation.
 

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Looks like a good list, infact looks VERY similar to Commie Bob's Commie Undead Guard so expect him to hunt you down for a grudge match.

Are you planning on having the battle-psykers in the dettas?

Reason i ask is that you could have some silly fun with a Cullexus outflanking with them.
 
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