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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hey all.

My Mammoth Tank Mk IV has finally left the original ideas board, parts have been ordered and rules are looking like they are forming.. somewhat.

What i have so far is as follows

BS F S R
4 14 14 14

SP 4

Weapons
36" Recoilless Guns R 72" S D AP 2 Type Ordinance 2, 10" Blast (need name for these bad boys, 36" recoilless guns just doesn't have a nice ring to it, no?)
Mammoth Tusk
Missile Pods R 48" S 8 AP 3 Type Heavy 4 Blast

SPECIAL RULES
May Crush Small Vehicles (something to amplify the ramming rules perhaps?)
Repair (similar to how void shields repair)
(Something about negating or getting bonuses in difficult/dangerous terrain due to size/independent track motion, it does after all have four separate tracks)

It doesn't sport the range of weapons systems that most Super Heavies do but I'm making this straight from the Command & Conquer universe, even those rules are from it.
(^ that is the reason the only two weapons it has are quite decent)

I'm thinking around about 750pts but i have yet to proxy a battle or anything with it to see how this holds up. (would love for vassal to still be up and running)

ANY input is appreciated, Its the first vehicle I've made my own rules for and its very difficult to balance them i hear.

Fluff: (part of Iron Hands detatchment to GK's? still reading up on Iron hands but so far loos like it could work. They're almost as fanatically crazy against corruption as the GK's themselves.)

Cheers,
Chris.
 

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blahblahblahblah
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I'd lower the armour a little to maybe 14, 13, 12

since it has no structure points and therefore is not a super heavy making the guns twin-linked would be more efficient, since it would only be able to fire 1 anyway, and then lower the blast down to 7" blast since thats the largest none super heavy blast available in 40k and don't think that needs to change, then also lower the str from D, as thats a little high for something smaller than a volcano cannon.

knocking the BS down to 3 and then giving it the option for targetters would be better than BS4 straight off, as thats the realm of SPESS MAHREENS, and it certainly doesn't suit them.

give it the lumbering behemoth rule that the russ has, since it is a lumbering behemoth

for the missle pods give them the frag and krak options, straight str8 ap3 missile with blast is a little OTT really, although giving them a range might be useful too.

as for terrain, well if it crossed woods, hedges, walls etc it would probably get a +1 to its terrain roll for easily traversing them, and a -1 when crossing water features and bogs etc, as it would sink like a stone.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Ok i guess theres some things i left out.

This thing IS a Super Heavy, when finished it will be about a third to a half size larger than a Baneblade. This is what i am going for.

I pretty much took the guns straight out of C & C. The missile pods shoot four times. The Cannon shoots twice, i felt twin linked was not enough due to the lack of other weapons it sports.

Also it is the most powerful tank out, thats why it was 14 all round. I wouldnt put it at 650+ points for nothing.

And it IS Space marine, not Guard, its a Grey Knights tank.

Your input is noted and appreciated and changes will be made accordingly as i see fit.

Cheers,
Chris.
 

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blahblahblahblah
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And it IS Space marine, not Guard, its a Grey Knights tank.
problem is from a fluff perspective that now actually makes even less sense than it being a marine tank unfortunately, especially if it is half a size larger than a baneblade, there is nothing that would ever be able to deploy it.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
I think you're seeing this from the wrong angle. I'm not trying to find reasons for this to exist, or fluff for it to exist, I am trying to write rules for what it is.

Whether or not it can fit into 40k i want to make a Mammoth Tank style model just because i want to.

Since when did it matter?

According to C & C fluff it has an atomic engine, thats much more power than required to operate it, who is to say it doesn't have a teleporter, or some other form of deployment. Far stranger things have happened than a huge tank being deployed. I dare say a titan could be heavier.
 

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blahblahblahblah
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it can matter allot, I can see why you'd want a mammoth tank in 40k, heck I've written rules for tanks in 40k myself, but having a reason as to why something is there can be very important, I would have no problem playing against a C&C tank in 40k, but it would be important to know how it reaches a planets surface, why it operates under a certain forces control and many other things.

if you look at guard they can deliver there tanks to a planet easily because there transports are big enough, titans can be delivered because what there transported in is big enough, but the reason why marines and grey knights have no titans and no super heavies past thunderhawks is because the heaviest thing they can transport is a land raider, and if they do have anything bigger they usually are forced to stay at home.

now if it was transported down by a guard detachment attached to the knights or marines that would be realistic, as both forces can call on there aid, however it would be guard controlled, as marines can't use guard equipment as much as guard can't use marine equipment.

by all means create fluff for it, but don't just slide around the basic established background that has been the staple of 40k for many many years just because you want a shiny silver mega tank, its almost as bad as a smurf painting a baneblade blue.

you have to be sensible when creating things like this, and not just go crazy for the sake of crazy, it gets more attention from posters and makes players more willing to accept it.

personally for something like this maybe a back story of it being an experimental tank created by mars would suit it, and its first combat action is it and a regiment of skitari (guardsmen painted with reds) supporting a grey knight landing on a planet recently fallen to heavy cultist activity would be great, that way you have established a way it can be transported and dropped, but still get to include your grey knights in the process.

once you establish fluff its easier to establish rules.
 

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I have to agree that it seems dubious to claim Grey Knights would field something so awesome in size and power, as they are the scalpel to the Space Marine's sword, who are in turn the knife to the Guardsmen's hammer. The GK are actually a very specialized army limited to attacking the source of daemonic corruption. They aren't so interested in things like pulverizing city walls or enemy titans. They leave that to the Imperial Guard, the Space Marines chapters and the Adeptus Mechanicus' titan legions.

That said, this tank could, in theory belong to one of the chapters more heavily involved with the Adeptus Mechanicus. The Salamanders or Iron Hands, for example. Even the Imperial Fists could appreciate the value of a tank like this, and might be willing to requisition one, stuff a few techmarines inside, and have a go with it. But, fluffwise, Space Marines would most likely only keep these at their forge worlds and recruiting worlds. Then again, perhaps you could say that if someone assaulted Titan (GK homeworld?), there'd be a few of these tanks waiting for them.

But, in anything other than a defense of a homeworld, recruiting world or forgeworld would seem a bit of a stretch.

Now, as for the rules: Looks like a decent tank, but perhaps you could make those missiles: R:48" Str:8 Ap:3 Type: Heavy 4 blast. Just because the mammoth tanks do sometimes kill more than just one infantryman per shot.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
I have to agree that it seems dubious to claim Grey Knights would field something so awesome in size and power, as they are the scalpel to the Space Marine's sword, who are in turn the knife to the Guardsmen's hammer. The GK are actually a very specialized army limited to attacking the source of daemonic corruption. They aren't so interested in things like pulverizing city walls or enemy titans. They leave that to the Imperial Guard, the Space Marines chapters and the Adeptus Mechanicus' titan legions.

That said, this tank could, in theory belong to one of the chapters more heavily involved with the Adeptus Mechanicus. The Salamanders or Iron Hands, for example. Even the Imperial Fists could appreciate the value of a tank like this, and might be willing to requisition one, stuff a few techmarines inside, and have a go with it. But, fluffwise, Space Marines would most likely only keep these at their forge worlds and recruiting worlds. Then again, perhaps you could say that if someone assaulted Titan (GK homeworld?), there'd be a few of these tanks waiting for them.

But, in anything other than a defense of a homeworld, recruiting world or forgeworld would seem a bit of a stretch.

Now, as for the rules: Looks like a decent tank, but perhaps you could make those missiles: R:48" Str:8 Ap:3 Type: Heavy 4 blast. Just because the mammoth tanks do sometimes kill more than just one infantryman per shot.
WELL my GK are a Homeworld force and aspects of my army are in recruiting.
As for the missiles they did used to be Blast but i thought people might have found that too cheesy.

I enjoy the prospect of fielding some iron hands, reading up on them they HATE corruption, which is why they replace parts with machines and they field mighty battle fortresses and mighty siege engines.

Plus they wouldn't conflict with my GK colour scheme as i've seen some very decent iron hands silver schemes out there.

Can't find too much in the way of rules on their behalf anymore but i've always looked for an excuse for some mech-marines.

@stella

I would paint it neutral colours, dark grey urban scheme so it wouldn't stand out and be noticeably attached to any force i play it with. For the time being i just play with some friends who sport ridiculous amounts of baneblades for the fun of it so i have been looking for an entire army to attach to my GK's, beginning with my two Stormlords and my Mammoth.

Cheers,
Chris.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Ok so I've looked into converting some SM models into an Iron Hands Attatchment force for my GK and it seems feasible.

I'm stuck on making its special rules however, especially on the 'May crush small vehicles'

how would i represent something like that in game? I know this thing is epicly big so it doesn't even bother about terrain unless it's impassable, it just rolls on over them, but other vehicles? I'm not sure how it would work in terms of 40k.

Maybe ramming but with a pretty decent strength modifier making it difficult(but not impossible) for a smaller vehicle to survive impact.
 

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Angryman
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Take the standard ramming rules and add a condition for structure points. I'm not sure but +2 for each structure point more than the opposing vehicle. Ie a rhino has 1. This thing has 4 for example. so +6 to the ram value. Thing is you won't be able to ram too much because this thing should only be able to move 6'. Use the same terrain rules as the baneblade. They should be applicable.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Take the standard ramming rules and add a condition for structure points. I'm not sure but +2 for each structure point more than the opposing vehicle. Ie a rhino has 1. This thing has 4 for example. so +6 to the ram value. Thing is you won't be able to ram too much because this thing should only be able to move 6'. Use the same terrain rules as the baneblade. They should be applicable.
Yeah it's not like a plan on chasing down grav tanks or anything, that rule was just straight out of the C & C fluff for it, as with all its special rules, just looking for a way to convert it to 40k but that suits awesomely! cheers!

+rep
 

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Discussion Starter #12
So I've given the rules some thought as to how i could make it an Iron Hands tank.. I will have a crew of 4 marines on duty, and one other 'husk' of a marine embedded into its systems to act as a 'Machine Spirit' type entity, or realistically something closer to a dreadnought, as the Iron Hands epitomise the bonding between man and machine and their ultimate goal is to replace all their 'corruptible' flesh with steel.

I'm thinking of representing this as 'Power of the Machine Spirit but with a Space marines BS. Still figuring out a decent name for this.

Also on the Repair - no weapons can be fired due to the immense strain on the on-board automated systems. The Above rule would allow one weapon to be fired as per usual.

As for the fluff side of things, still haven't figured out a good reason for the IH to join up with the GK but they do share a similar righteous zeal for the cleansing of corruption.

Never been fantastic at making fluff sadly :(
 

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Unhinged Hobo
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Ironhands hate the weakness of the flesh, some might say mutants are the ultimately weak flesh.
grey knights hunt deamons which can create demonhosts and inevitabley lead to mutations.
The two have a pretty easily merged common purpose, all it would take would be for the inquisition to have members of both forces present during the cleansing of a corrupted planet and the two could develop a mutual respect which meant they would call on each other if they needed backup. The DH need some heavy tanks to punch a hole so they give thier buddies the IH a call. The hands discover that the mutations they have been brought in to cleanse on a planet are being manipulated by demons so they drop the dh a line.

With the IH fielding this tank i think it's safe to assume that they would have built a transport to get it to the planet, maybe some sort of modified (very big) thunderhawk carrier. I smell another modelling project here.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Oh man you have no idea how helpful all of that is in creating the side fluff for them being able to work together.

+rep for that. Its purely awesome.

Also I was looking at making a transport type model for it WAY down the line, either a much larger Thunderhawk type model with VTOL thrusters converted from an old podracer model i have lying around (sorry anakin :( ) or a massive drop pod style system similar to the ones that drop buildings down for IG in Dawn of War.

Cheers :D
Chris.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Or if your set on an Astartes force then the Iron Hands might still have a few Stormbirds left (the Thunderhawk's predecessor), which are significantly larger, as in the Stormbird can carry 100 Marines to the Thunderhawk's 30. Maybe a Stormbird Transporter would be capable of carrying this monstrosity :victory:
Either that, or one idea that i fancied over one night was combining two thunderhawks, making it one larger and including vtol engines.

also a mammoth type turret with the two cannons on top to match the theme ^^

i think thats gonna come way down the track however, unless i can find two relatively cheap kits soon.

thanks for the input though, would never have known what a stormbird was otherwise. +rep for that.

Cheers,
Chris
 
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