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Discussion Starter #1
only second to Emperor...his tactical/strategic acumen, military mind.. is unparalleled

i would say he even succeeded Horus and The Lion (both are considered the top two generals of the primarchs)
 

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True, Macharius is indeed a god amongst the Imperial Guard. Basically, Alexander the Great in space. However, I'm not sure about him being better than Horus or Lion, they both are primarchs after all, but who knows, maybe if he were alive Abaddon would be getting his ass kicked on Cadia.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
although imho...i think the lion had the greatest tactical mind of the primarchs, most would agree with me? even more so then Horus
 

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Heresy Online's Pet Furby
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I wouldn't mind seeing a few games of Regicide between the Lion, Horus, Macharius and the Big E :)
 

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True, Macharius is indeed a god amongst the Imperial Guard. Basically, Alexander the Great in space. However, I'm not sure about him being better than Horus or Lion, they both are primarchs after all, but who knows, maybe if he were alive Abaddon would be getting his ass kicked on Cadia.
Consider the following, the Lion and Horus were considered the greatest tactical minds of the Great Crusade, but they also had the might of the Great Crusade Imperium behind them. That means Space Marine Legions of hundreds of thousands, a united Imperial Army(which includes a combined Navy/Guard), and a far greater tech level, and it still took hundreds of years to complete the Great Crusade. Macharius, using mainly imperial guard and a few space marine chapters, conquered a thousand worlds in 7 years.
 

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@Geist you have to also consider though that it was just after age of strife (?) So everything was quite bad everywhere they dint have solid empire behind them just a handful of planets. also it was a whole dam galaxy and I'm sure there way more planets in it then a thousand. Also as you said the tech was more advanced so the enemies they were facing had somewhat equal tech or better. Also as you see aftet his death those world fell to instability but during the great crusade they were not only conquering but expanding the empire, building and expanding the new infrastructure.
 

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Consider the following, the Lion and Horus were considered the greatest tactical minds of the Great Crusade, but they also had the might of the Great Crusade Imperium behind them. That means Space Marine Legions of hundreds of thousands, a united Imperial Army(which includes a combined Navy/Guard), and a far greater tech level,
The power at their disposal shouldn't matter in a debate about tactics and strategy.

Also as you see aftet his death those world fell to instability but during the great crusade they were not only conquering but expanding the empire, building and expanding the new infrastructure.
This is also a really good point. The Primarchs built an empire of millions of worlds, Macharius didn't actually achieve anything of lasting significance. Surely that must speak to his strategic ability to pacify conquered worlds.
 

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Apathetic Megalomaniac
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The power at their disposal shouldn't matter in a debate about tactics and strategy.
And there are hardly any details on those tactics and what strategies they used, so the resources they had at their disposal and the end result is all we really have.

This is also a really good point. The Primarchs built an empire of millions of worlds, Macharius didn't actually achieve anything of lasting significance. Surely that must speak to his strategic ability to pacify conquered worlds.
That wasn't his job. His job was to conquer, it was the "missionaries and Inquisitorial teams that followed those conquests that were supposed to do the job of turning those planets into loyal parts of the imperium.

Same for the Primarchs, they conquered, but for the most part it was the Imperial Army and the Orators who's job it was to maintain those conquests.
 

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A God amongst Men yes, a Brave Warrior and Philosopher, and Warhammer 40k own verzion of Sun Tzu. Better than Horus or the Emporer??? I don't think so, his ambition and charisma is what made him great; the tactics were brutal and exacted a heavy toll on his men.

I would almost go to the extent to say that Macharius, while great, is on the lower end of the totem pole when compared to other Heroes and Villains of the Imperium.
 

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That wasn't his job. His job was to conquer, it was the "missionaries and Inquisitorial teams that followed those conquests that were supposed to do the job of turning those planets into loyal parts of the imperium.

Same for the Primarchs, they conquered, but for the most part it was the Imperial Army and the Orators who's job it was to maintain those conquests.
Surely it is the duty of a conqueror to hold the worlds he takes? Otherwise he's just a raider with pretensions of greatness. It isn't solely the province of others to make the world loyal, how the conqueror goes about taking the world has an overwhelming impact on how the world feels about becoming Imperial. It determines how open they are to the work of the missionaries. The worlds taken by the Primarchs for the most part were willing to listen to the iterators, because of the strategies used to take those worlds. The worlds Macharius took uniformly rejected Imperial rule, clearly that reflects badly on how he took them.
 

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That wasn't his job. His job was to conquer, it was the "missionaries and Inquisitorial teams that followed those conquests that were supposed to do the job of turning those planets into loyal parts of the imperium.

Same for the Primarchs, they conquered, but for the most part it was the Imperial Army and the Orators who's job it was to maintain those conquests.
Yet the Imperium endured even during the Horus Heresy but those worlds Macharius conquered fell to dissaray right after his death. This shows much about his ways, sure he grinded them down and won the land, but not the people even his own man were too tired to follow him. However i am sure during the great crusade the imperial man would have followed their leader's even into that abyss.
 

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Jac "Baneblade" O'Bite
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Basically, Alexander the Great in space.
There is no basically about it. Macharius is Alexander the Great in space. His entire story and post death story is hamstrung by this. Just like with Alexander worlds/lands captured feel into disarray not because he didn't conquer them properly but because the leaders left behind were too busy fighting amongst themselves. Two SM chapters came to blows during the aftermath for goodness sake, the issue isn't Macharius's ability to lead or conquer it's that it's based on (or let me rephrase "carbon copied from") Alexander and their stories mirror.
 

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Apathetic Megalomaniac
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Surely it is the duty of a conqueror to hold the worlds he takes? Otherwise he's just a raider with pretensions of greatness. It isn't solely the province of others to make the world loyal, how the conqueror goes about taking the world has an overwhelming impact on how the world feels about becoming Imperial. It determines how open they are to the work of the missionaries. The worlds taken by the Primarchs for the most part were willing to listen to the iterators, because of the strategies used to take those worlds. The worlds Macharius took uniformly rejected Imperial rule, clearly that reflects badly on how he took them.
The world's didn't reject imperial rule, his generals did. From what I understand (reading the wiki), as soon as Macharius died, his 7 generals all seceded from the Imperium and divvied up Macharius' conquest. Not really much a world can do when the army that conquered you secedes from their own empire.

Hell, even the Space Marine chapters that took part in that crusade went crazy and started fighting each other, which seems like too much of a coincidence for it to have happened without an outside source(maybe chaos? They were fighting Chaos Marines at one point in the crusade)

Yet the Imperium endured even during the Horus Heresy but those worlds Macharius conquered fell to dissaray right after his death. This shows much about his ways, sure he grinded them down and won the land, but not the people even his own man were too tired to follow him. However i am sure during the great crusade the imperial man would have followed their leader's even into that abyss.
Again, it was a different imperium. First, the Space Marine Legions, which were pretty much in charge of all conquest, "knew no fear", so of course they would have followed their leaders into the abyss. Second, the philosophies and beliefs of the average imperial man are vastly different between the great crusade and the 41st millennium. During the great crusade, the Imperial Truth was widespread and humanity trusted in science and reason, there was no reason to believe that the Halo Stars would be any more difficult to conquer than the rest of the galaxy. 41st millennium though means that the average imperial citizen is ignorant and superstitious and is absolutely terrified of "Going beyond the Emperor's light".

Honestly though, the fluff for the Macharian Heresy is a little dumb, and it's obviously just an attempt to shoehorn one last Alexander comparison (where his empire falls apart after his death), despite how unlikely it sounds that 6 of the most trusted commanders in the most successful crusade since the Great Crusade just happen to decide that the Imperium can suck it and split off to do their own thing( not to mention all the troops who are raised from birth to worship the Emperor and Imperium.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
The world's didn't reject imperial rule, his generals did. From what I understand (reading the wiki), as soon as Macharius died, his 7 generals all seceded from the Imperium and divvied up Macharius' conquest. Not really much a world can do when the army that conquered you secedes from their own empire.

Hell, even the Space Marine chapters that took part in that crusade went crazy and started fighting each other, which seems like too much of a coincidence for it to have happened without an outside source(maybe chaos? They were fighting Chaos Marines at one point in the crusade)



Again, it was a different imperium. First, the Space Marine Legions, which were pretty much in charge of all conquest, "knew no fear", so of course they would have followed their leaders into the abyss. Second, the philosophies and beliefs of the average imperial man are vastly different between the great crusade and the 41st millennium. During the great crusade, the Imperial Truth was widespread and humanity trusted in science and reason, there was no reason to believe that the Halo Stars would be any more difficult to conquer than the rest of the galaxy. 41st millennium though means that the average imperial citizen is ignorant and superstitious and is absolutely terrified of "Going beyond the Emperor's light".

Honestly though, the fluff for the Macharian Heresy is a little dumb, and it's obviously just an attempt to shoehorn one last Alexander comparison (where his empire falls apart after his death), despite how unlikely it sounds that 6 of the most trusted commanders in the most successful crusade since the Great Crusade just happen to decide that the Imperium can suck it and split off to do their own thing( not to mention all the troops who are raised from birth to worship the Emperor and Imperium.
i thought the great crusade came after the age of technology and age of strife, so during the great crusade technology progression was looked down upon
 

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@Emperorguard500 nope it was the empirial truth and emperor himself propagated science,reason and disproved of religion. You could say science was controlled due to fragile state the imperium was in, but in no way was it looked down upon. All the tech we have right now was engineered/rediscovered during the 30-31st millennia. Also even right now in 40th millennia technology is still advancing at a barely crawling speed but still advancing. New STC are discovered and already discovered ones are getting accepted.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
the dark age of technology led into the age of strife which is where the whole anti-technology bias of the imperium came in

the great crusade came after that
 

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the dark age of technology led into the age of strife which is where the whole anti-technology bias of the imperium came in

the great crusade came after that
The age of strife was civil war, there was nothing about technology becoming a bad thing it literally was what most people consider the dark ages to be.

When the emperor was interred to the golden throne is when things went down hill.
 

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from what i read they cloned him now theres an honour...maybe seeing as one ended up in the Penal Legions Last Chancers, not just that, great military mind he might have been but i would also say spoilt and prone to tantrums, when his men did not follow him into the Halo regions he drank himself into a stupor and moaned about no brave men/women...still they made him a saint and renamed his homeworld after him...can't be bad
 

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the dark age of technology led into the age of strife which is where the whole anti-technology bias of the imperium came in

the great crusade came after that
You're making a fallacious argument here, substituting correlation with causation.

Just because the dark age of technology came right before the age of strife didn't mean they are connected.

What the people of the 41st millennium refer to as "the dark age of technology" was a period of time before the gestation of Slaanesh where human scientific learning flourished and grew strong. Unfortunately, some folks misused their technology for awful destructive purposes, but that doesn't void that vast value of the learning during the quote-unquote dark age. In point of fluff-fact the dark age was an age of scientific enlightenment. The STC systems were devised during the dark age of technology.

The age of strife meanwhile wad a period parallel to the gestation of Slaanesh, where in space travel wad impossible and humanity lost contact with its far flung members and without the support and learning often devolved into more barbaric societies.

Please be clear, the dark age of technology did NOT cause the age of strife.
 
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