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Discussion Starter #1
Quick question here. (again about FNP.... I hate that rule)

Lucius' special rule "Armour of Shrieking Souls" states that "for every successful power armour or invulnerable save Lucius makes in close combat, the unit causing the wound immediately suffers a str 4 hit that ignores armour saves."

My question is "If a unit with FNP attacks Lucius and he makes saves against their attacks, then wounds them with his armour do they get their FNP against those wounds?"
 

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Yes.

FNP is NOT a save. What it is is a roll to see if you can ignore the wound, not a roll to stop you from being wounded.

So Lucius makes his save, the attacker takes his wound (or rolls an invul save if he has one), and then makes a FNP check to see if he can ignore it.

There may be some issue with the fact that close combat attacks that ignore saves can't be subject to FNP...but the argument can be made that this isn't a close combat attack. It's a wound caused by a special ability that does not specifically simulate a close combat attack.
 

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There may be some issue with the fact that close combat attacks that ignore saves can't be subject to FNP...but the argument can be made that this isn't a close combat attack. It's a wound caused by a special ability that does not specifically simulate a close combat attack.
I'd agree with that, Yriel's Eye of Wrath is another example.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I'd agree with that, Yriel's Eye of Wrath is another example.
Yriel's Eye of Wrath is greatly different. It has str 6 and AP 3. AP 3 doesn't "ignore armour saves." The Armour of Shrieking Souls says that it ignores armour saves.

Really if you want to compare the Armour of Shrieking Souls to anything it would be The Nightbringer who has the Gaze of Death attack. Would you get FNP against the Gaze of Death? I think it counts as a CC attack and ignores armour saves. Does that meet the qualifications to ignore FNP? I think so.

Besides the Armour of Shrieking Souls states that "the unit causing the wound immediately suffers a strength 4 HIT that ignores armour saves." I assume because this can only happen in close combat that the HIT counts as being a wound caused by something in CC, that ignores armour saves. So why wouldn't it ignore FNP?
 

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Sure.

But is the armor a Weapon?

FNP says it doesn't work against "Close Combat Weapons that ignore Armour Saves" not hits or effects or even wargear.

Strictly speaking, the armor isn't a weapon, nor does it act like a weapon (Like a servo arm would).
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Sure.

But is the armor a Weapon?

FNP says it doesn't work against "Close Combat Weapons that ignore Armour Saves" not hits or effects or even wargear.

Strictly speaking, the armor isn't a weapon, nor does it act like a weapon (Like a servo arm would).
Its Armour that attacks.... Sounds like a weapon to me. The to hit roll you may ask? Well thats the roll to save.

The Armour of Shrieking Souls doesn't say that it provides a 3+ armour save or a 5+ invulnerable save. He just has that. What it does say is that if he makes an armour or invulnerable save in close combat, whatever hit him takes a hit back, (which only happens in close combat!) Its a hit not an automatic wound. It is happening in close combat (the hit). It has a strength 4 and ignores armour saves. Think of it as a weapon that hits automatically, but only gets to attack in close combat after Lucius makes a save.
 

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they emphasize HIT since it tells you that you are auto hit but need to roll to wound still.
Others are correct in stating that you still get a FNP as it is not considered to be a ccw.

yet another fine example of how poorly the rulebook was written. they need to re-write it and give more and better examples. Looks like they rushed the 4th edition book into circulation. Same with the codexes.
 

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indeed.
They call it a hit because you still need to roll to wound.
Does the armor give you an extra attack in close combat for having two weapons?
Does the armor ever actually say it counts as or is treated as a close combat weapon, or replicates an existing weapon? does it say "The model is treated as being hit by a S4 power weapon?"

Nope.
Not a weapon.

Just like suffering damage from a failed dangerous terrain test doesn't count as a close combat weapon, even though it ignores saves and happens up close..
 

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I agree with Gal here. The armor is not a weapon. It is never specified that the armor attack is a Close Combat attack even though the only time it can be triggered is in Close Combat.

Feel No Pain rox. Use it, love it, win with it.
 
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