[WarlordKaptainGrishnak]

With High Elves becoming more popular, with the possibility (basically confirmed) of them being in Isle of Blood, AND new plastic Lothern Sea Guard models looking to be in the new starter kit, I'd like to pass on this little tactic I was told by a GW employee.

Ok so say you take 50 Sea Guard, 10x5 for starters. Then you have this for rank attacks;

1st Rank - normal attacks
2nd Rank - Supporting attacks
3rd Rank - Martial Prowess (always fights in an extra rank over normal)
4th Rank - Spears
and
5th Rank - Horde

this means you have ALL 50 models in the unit attacking, add in the fact you have Always Strikes First k: and you have a very dangerous unit about. 50 attacks, more if you take a champion etc.

Just a nice tactic i thought I'd share.

Grish

 

[Wolf_Lord_Skoll]

You forgot the 35-odd Bow shots they get! (It might be 40, can't remeber if horde works on bows)

 

[Siphon]

I'm still a relative noob at Fantasy (9 games and counting under my belt, started at 8th release), but I'm far from sold on Seaguard. They seem way to expensive for spearmen with bows. I've been slightly underwhelmed by Archer shooting and Seaguard have an even shorter range.

You could do the horde thing with Spearmen for a lot cheaper. I definately would not take a horde of 50 Seaguard. One dwellers below and you just lost 325+ points.

I've also noticed that Seaguard make me play more defensively then I do when I have a mix of Spearmen and Archers. With Seaguard I stand back and shoot while with Spearmen I march and charge. When I sit back and shoot, my T3 5+ save elves who cost as much as some other armies elites get murdered by artillary, damage spells, or characteristic test spells. Oddly enough, being in melee seems to be a safer place for our elves.

Once in melee Seaguard are just more expensive spearmen. So with Seaguard you either sit back and shoot and deal with the nasty I mentioned above, or you move them into melee and get 1 maybe 2 shots off with the unit all game (no volley fire either if you move) for 4 points more a model.

I'm thinking that a good use for Seaguard might be as empire style detachments of 10 (maybe 15) on the flanks. Obviously you don't get the cool special rules for detachments, but a unit of 20 spearmen marching forward with a unit of 10 seaguard on the side for flank assistance and shooting on the move could be useful and won't break the points bank.

Just my opinion.

 

[Whizzwang]

50 Seaguard = 50 attacks in combat = 35 Shooting attacks.

Move, shoot with 35 shots. Wait to receive a charge, stand and fire, destroy your opponent in combat. WIN.

cry like a girl when your opponent starts to field stonethrowers.

Personal I'm liking Skaven for the stupidity of front rank of 10 Warchiefs, 2nd rank of 10 warlocks with pistols, lots of ranks of spear rats.

 

[Siphon]

50 Seaguard = 50 attacks in combat = 35 Shooting attacks.

Move, shoot with 35 shots. Wait to receive a charge, stand and fire, destroy your opponent in combat. WIN.

cry like a girl when your opponent starts to field stonethrowers.

Personal I'm liking Skaven for the stupidity of front rank of 10 Warchiefs, 2nd rank of 10 warlocks with pistols, lots of ranks of spear rats.

You cannot volley fire if you move or as a stand and shoot reaction. So that would be 20 shots instead of 35 for both of those cases.

 

[Whizzwang]

move to position turn 1 20 shots

open fire turn 2 35 shots

stand and fire 20 shots

finish off opponent in combat 50 attacks

nobody likes a pedant, now shush.

 

[Siphon]

move to position turn 1 20 shots

open fire turn 2 35 shots

stand and fire 20 shots

finish off opponent in combat 50 attacks

nobody likes a pedant, now shush.

Who knew that simply pointing out the rules and discussing the pitfalls of a particular unit is being a pedant? I do know that telling someone to hush and giving them minus rep for correcting you is called being an ass. I am pretty sure that pointing out a correct rule is not grounds for minus rep when it was hardly said in a negative manner and I have reported you. Have a good day.

 

[sir_m1ke]

Horde= FAIL

Sea Guard= overcosted. just get archers, MSU style

T3 5+ save= death against nearly anything

Leave the fighting to the actual fighting guys

 

[neilbatte]

They're a good unit right up until you look at the cost of 50 seaguard with command,
If I choose to ignore them and instead destroy the rest of your army how will the sea guard fare against the combined charge from most of my army, Any horde army will just swamp the few units you have managed to squeeze out of your points while templateing your T3 elves then mop up the rest.
The unit would possibly work at higher points but any thing less than 2500 will see you struggle.

 

[hellsteath]

ON first reading horde units of all types seemed like a good idea, after thinking on it for a while, ill be making my units narrow and deep thanks, steadfast>horde.

 

[Tim/Steve]

Behave and play nice guys: no personal attacks on other members
T/S

 

[Tim/Steve]

ON first reading horde units of all types seemed like a good idea, after thinking on it for a while, ill be making my units narrow and deep thanks, steadfast>horde.

It really depends on if you want the unit to win or to lose- hoard means you want to do damage, steadfast means you want to survive.
Personally, if I was playing an army that allowed for multiple large units for decent points costs (eg O&G) then I would want a central hoard dealing huge amounts of damage flanked by cheap rubbish units with many ranks to stay steadfast and protect your flanks.... simply choosing to have all your units set for steadfast will just slow down the game, reduces your potential damage output and will make games quite dull.

With Lothians I would use them as a hoard... but use a swift reform to steadfast if the enemy get close. You get the max of your shooting, and then steadfast bonuses if you need them.

 

[Aramoro]

The Sea Guard horde is just a bit unreliable. You'll lose half the unit to a Dwellers from Below. Flank charges etc will also mess you up badly as you don't get supporting attacks to the Flanks or Rear arcs. A 12 Knight Lance can sweep your unit off the table in a Flank Charge. The Sea Guard get 5 attacks which will hit, but at strength 3 on 2+ Armour Saves. Survive that and all you need to do is kill 10 guys with 9 Mount Attacks and 11 Knight attacks and you Sweep the unit.

The unit is good yes, but unwieldy and full of fragile guys expensive guys who can get swept by good charging.

Aramoro

 

[Asmodeun]

So for it to work it will need screening units to the flanks.
As a deathstar, what would happen if you slapped this on a hill, put some nice magic and shooting protection on it, and gave it some steadfast units on the flanks?
I don;t know, but is it plausible?

 

[Aramoro]

Terrain is the problem, it's a massive unit it can barely wheel and it's shooting is decent but not going to set the world alight. at 600+ points + points to protect it's flanks etc + points for wizards etc you have a fairly static formation for your 1000 points. 270 points buys me 3 Trebuchets.

As far as I can see it's just a bad use of points. Smaller units of say 15-20 Sea Guard are more manoeuvrable and tactically more flexible.

Aramoro

 

[Vaz]

Sounds alright. But I'm wondering just how that will fair to several other phalanx block units - namely Saurus Warriors/Temple Guard and Eternal Guard?

 

[Barnster]

personally the only hordes im sold on are skaven and goblins simply because they are so cheap. for seaguard 50 attacks may sound good but they are just S3, which isn't great. So overall alot will miss, then alot fail to wound then alot of saves are taken. Thats an awful lot of points for a rather underwhelming unit.

I'm thinking of trying LSG in units of 21 deployerd in 3 X 7 and use the rest of the points to get things like WLs, SMs and bolt throwers which are the main killy units for HEs.

 

[Tim/Steve]

Its 50 attacks, but you reroll to hit, so you're looking at 37-44 hits... if you combine hem with something like okkam's mindrazor or lowering the enemy's toughness (with lore of shadow or death... one of them) then you suddenly have a unit that can do vast amounts of damage.
By themselves I think they are mediocre... but add in strong magic and they're just evil, and while this is true for many things the ASF of the HE, high Ld and their good magical abilities makes it double true for HE.