Librarius Conclave and 'end of phase'

3595 Views 20 Replies 6 Participants Last post by Vaz, Jun 17, 2015

Xabre

Discussion Starter · Jun 14, 2015

I posted this question on a few groups already. I've seen some various replies, and I'm gathering more opinions.

In the new SM Codex, the Librarius Conclave Formation (and also the datasheet that was released last year for Dark Angels!) has an interesting rule.

Short version: Nominate one Librarian to cast ALL powers that the other librarians in this formation (within 12" of the nominated dude) knows. If one Libby is within 12" of the 'master', he casts on a 3+. if 2 are within 12", he casts on a 2+. If you use this option, ALL Librarians (regardless of within 12") can't cast until the end of the psychic phase.

Emphasis mine, but you can guess where this question is going.

RAI, this means to say that the Librarians can't cast again until their next turn. To my knowledge there are no effects anymore that can be activated in another turn, during assault (I'm looking at you, Force), etc. To mix games, every Psychic Power is a 'sorcery', not an 'instant'.

RAW, I'm finding more and more people that are saying that 'until the end of the psychic phase' means that as long as everything else in that phase has happened, you can THEN start casting with those Librarians because now it's the end of your phase.

However, in the BRB, 'End of the Phase' is listed as 'after all other actions have occurred, before the next phase begins' (I'm paraphrasing from memory). So for instance, picking up the Relic happens at the END of the movement phase, after all movement, before Shooting begins.

So... what's your take on it? Are the Librarians unable to act at all for casting until their next turn, and GW once again failed to write a rule correctly? Or can they cast AT the end of the psychic phase?

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Vaz

· #12 · Jun 15, 2015

I think that the reason why the TSons didn't get a Conclave might be to do with it being Codex Space Marines that got the rules. And as for power? I always found it strange when the Imperial Guard could field Psykers of similar might to a Librarian or Eldar Warlock. Now, while on a 1v1, they're roughly equal, a Librarius Conclave is pretty conclusively suggestive of why the Space Marines are better.

In regards to the other chapters not getting updated, it's about time they were folded back into the core rules.

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Vaz

· #15 · Jun 15, 2015

What unique shit? I'm going to discount special characters, relics and psychic powers here.

Space Wolves? Fenrisian Wolf/Cyberwolf Pets, Chaplains which act like Apothecaries, Scout equivalents in Power Armour, Elite Scouts, True Grit Tactical Squads, Thunderwolves, Lone Killer Marines, Stormwolf/Stormfang, Helfrost weapons.

Of those, you've got "ancient martian hoodoo weapons", variant flyers, primal pets/cavalry, an upgrade for scouts/option for Veterans, upgrade for Chaplains, upgrades for Tactical Squads.

Blood Angels; ever increasingly "diverse" assault marines, some of which are similar to old school Wulfen, or what Mark of the Wulfen once was. Variant predator tank, samples of which were likely stolen following the near destruction of the Lamenters at the hands of the Minotaurs during the Badab Conflict, and due to their connection, possibly on their way around the rest of the chapters with close affiliation (like Red Hunters say) with the Inquisition. Or if it was me, that's how I'd write the story as to why Assault Cannons are now available on Predators (Flamestorms already are).

Dark Angels? Elite Bikers, Elite Terminators, even eliter Terminators.

Really diverse options. For the sake of an upgrade to Vanguard Vets and a Chapter Tactic.

Black Templars we've already seen how they can be handled.

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Vaz

· #18 · Jun 16, 2015

Not even trolling.

BA? Psyker Dreads. What makes Psyker dreads so unique to BA? Furioso Dreadnoughts, basically assault dreadnoughts by another name. IC apothecaries...

Most of these rules are slight special rule changes or wargear upgrades. They all play very very similarly.

They are hardly as divergent as CSM from SM, or Nids and Orks to IG.

Giving an Apoth the option to become an IC. Give a Dreadnought an option to be taken as a HQ where it can be a former captain, libby or chaplain.

Veteran Super Assault Marine Bodyguards and Crazy Fallen Assault Marines. So SM Honour Guard with Jump Packs and a new unit called 'Fallen Marines', which in the fluff represents Death Company or Wulfen or even entire Chapters dedicated to it as such; like the Black Dragons say.

Baal Predators? You mean A) no other chapter thought 'oh lets overload our engines' or b; 'we need better antihorde capabilities, lets whack an asscan on there'? Or c) reverse engineered it from captured vehicles such as above, wreckage, or even footage?

Variant flyers or vehicles, you can ask why BA or SW dont have access to the hunter or stalker. I distinctly remember there being a quote from sanguinius following his death saying 'boys, ignore rowboat and his silly ideas about having Surface mounted air defence systems'.

Death Company command squads? Is it really that hard to give sm terminator bgs? Dwknights? Terminator honour guard? Rw knights, because only DA have honour guard on bikes, right?

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Vaz

· #21 · Jun 17, 2015

Ah well, if you want to soend another £30 for soecial rules, be my guest. I'm of the idea that the design of the 30k legiones list is the way that 40k sm should be played. It just needs updating to 7th style of list creation, but the actual mechanics about how legiones Astartes works is the best.

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