[maximus2467]

hi guys, hopefully a quick question. i was putting an army list together for my red templars and i am going to use a librarian with a familiar, hes going in a command squad and theyre going to have furios charge. my q is this, the familiar is wargear but he's also a model that can be attacked, shot at and attack back, he has a statline and therefore is a member of the unit so can i give him furios charge? the book says "ALL models in a command squad (inc leading/attached characters) may be upgraded to have one of the following skills...." my original thought was that this was just wishful thinking but then i thought why not??? why cant he have furious charge? he is a model in the unit and he's putting his life on the line so why cant the poor little bleeder be given half a chance? obviously i cant answer this puzzler so i humbly submit it to my most learned brethren. sirs, i wait with baited breath.

 

[Words_of_Truth]

Im not 100% sure but i think because its classified as wargear you can't, does he take up room in a rhino?

 

[Elchimpster]

Doesn't take up room in a rhino.
He does count as having a statline and is armed with a CCW.

 

[Deceiver]

in addidtion to elchimpsters reply-- is wargear and cannot be given furious charge. it is still leagal to have libby and rest of command sqd w/furious charge.

 

[Red Orc]

I was thinking on the same lines as WoT here, and I think the most crucial bit of your original post is the term 'model'.

If the familiar is modelled on its own base (like a grot ammo runner or mekboy's tool-carrier in an Ork army, which do take up space in trukks) then it is a 'model'; if it's modelled onto the librarian's base (and, as Elc says, doesn't take up any more space - I dunno, like a techmarin'e servo-harness) it almost certainly isn't a 'model', it is most likely counted as a particular special upgrade to the Librarian 'model'.

Can't actually tell you were it says that, I'm afraid. It just seems that the logical assumption based on comparison with similar 'wargear'.

:cyclops:

 

[The Son of Horus]

It doesn't say anywhere that it takes up additional space, and as it's wargear, no different than a bolt pistol ultimately... I'd be inclined to think that it doesn't take up more space, whether you model it on a seperate base or not. Since it's wargear, and not a model in and of itself, it wouldn't be weighed in with the unit-- so you're free to have a Command Squad and character with furious charge and still have the familiar in there. However, the familiar wouldn't benefit from furious charge, since it's wargear, and not a model in its own right.

 

[Red Orc]

...but, that's precisely why I brought up the grot comparison. Grots (and squighound/attack squigs) are 'wargear'. They are chosen from the 'wargear' section of the Ork codex. By your logic, you can choose to model them on the same or a different base, and they take up no room.

Not so. They must be modelled on a seperate base, and must take up room, if they are selected as 'wargear' (you can probably festoon your Warboss with grots and squigs, but if you don't select them as 'wargear' entries, they have no 'game' existence, they're just decoration).

A familiar isn't 'no different to a bolt pistol' unfortunately, it has a statline, and that's why maximus brought up the question; given that it has a statline, is it a 'model'? My argument is no, it isn't a 'model', unlike grots and squigs which are both 'wargear' and 'models', because (and precisely because) familiars don't a-have seperate bases and b-take up room (again, unlike sqig/grot 'wargear'). Break (either of? or both?) those two conditions and it is a model (which doesn't get furious charge, which, IIRC, means the rest of the unit loses it?)

Obviously, could be wrong on this, could be giving the rules a coherence they don't deserve, but that's how I read it: in essence, different base=takes up room=seperate 'model', 'wargear' or not.

:cyclops:

 

[nightmarine]

Familiars are seperate bases and a seperate model. They count toward the squad size (for 25% purposes and such) but not toward the total number of units being transported. He can be taken as a casualty, but only when there is only 1 other model in the squad due to mixed armor rules. He may assault like a normal figure and my not take the wound for a librarian like i believe a tyrant guard can. And yes, you must pay 3 extra points to give it furious charge. look at the bright side...at least now u have another S4 I4 model for 13 points that give +1I to ur libby.

 

[maximus2467]

thankyou nightmarine thats what i thought