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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I thought i'd make a thread about this in a fluffy-sense.

Sort of a place to pool what is known about the practice in 40K, especially as it relates back to the 30K Legions.

So, what do we know?

Well it's a big deal/major crime in the imperium and a (major?) part of why the Astral Claws came to grief.

It's a big deal because the Codex Astartes says it's a bad idea to have the power of a legion concentrated, better to break it up into chapters. But they seem to loose the greater support a legion would have.

We also know the Dark Angels and their successors form a sort of hidden legion by way of their shared conspiracy involving the Fallen and general cooperation on the subject.

Likewise, the Blood Angels have at least a form of cooperative conspiracy in order to hide their flaws, but that seems to be as far as it goes AFAIK; i've never heard of Blood Angel Successors working directly together under the Aegis of the parent chapter.

The Black Templars may number upwards of 6000+ Marines, though it is unclear if this is by design, or even how cooperative the individual Crusade fleets are. We also know there are other "Crusader Chapters" So it's not insane that due to design, oversight or expediency some others may exceed 1000 marines of "Bolter Strength" as well. Yeah, I like that term; I am coining that; Like "bayonet strength".

Lastly, we have the recent (to me) revelation that many of the Ultramarine successor chapters may in fact or could possibly form a Hidden Legion led by the Ultramarines Chapter.

Have I missed any?

What are your thoughts on the subject?

Is the CA well founded on this point, or just a reactionary measure?
 

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i've never heard of Blood Angel Successors working directly together under the Aegis of the parent chapter.
Blood Angels rang the dinner bell when Baal came under assault from Hive Fleet Leviathan. Everyone but the Lamenters came.

Lastly, we have the recent (to me) revelation that many of the Ultramarine successor chapters may in fact or could possibly form a Hidden Legion led by the Ultramarines Chapter.
I wonder why you would think that?

Last time I heard the Ultramarines did anything as a "Legion" was the assault on Tsagualsa.

Is the CA well founded on this point, or just a reactionary measure?
We've seen a fair amount of Chapters fall from grace...even well meaning ones like the Astral Claws.

I wholeheartedly agree with the separating of the Legions. It's too much of a risk to keep them as Legions.

We've seen Chapters cooperate together--like in the Zeist campaign. I don't think the drawbacks of many Chapters are nearly as bad as some people give credit for.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Blood Angels rang the dinner bell when Baal came under assault from Hive Fleet Leviathan. Everyone but the Lamenters came.



I wonder why you would think that?

Last time I heard the Ultramarines did anything as a "Legion" was the assault on Tsagualsa.
See, did not know that about the Blood Angels. Is that a recent thing out of the new campaign series?

The UMs? Well that's based on a very strong impression I got from the Guilliman Ressurected thread. It seems that many UM successors are so into the UMs as their spiritual leaders that they will or could basically take orders from them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Calgar is well respected, and can command many of those, having worked hard to maintain relationships with many chapters etc.
That's what I was getting at. Ironic, is it not?

But just what does the CA say, if anything about successors and progenitors working together, that we know of for sure?

Maybe that was what RG wanted all along.
 

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I think it's important to state that there's a difference between the actual size of the legions and what the Imperium believed the size of the legions were 10,000 years later.

Well it's a big deal/major crime in the imperium and a (major?) part of why the Astral Claws came to grief.
The Astral Claws were taken down because they weren't paying their tithes and were blocking the collection of tithes from worlds around the Maelstrom.

Lastly, we have the recent (to me) revelation that many of the Ultramarine successor chapters may in fact or could possibly form a Hidden Legion led by the Ultramarines Chapter.
It's not a revelation when the author who wrote it explicitly says it's not true.

The UMs? Well that's based on a very strong impression I got from the Guilliman Ressurected thread. It seems that many UM successors are so into the UMs as their spiritual leaders that they will or could basically take orders from them.
That's really not the case. I have to agree with Vaz that it's the bloodline back through Guilliman that's respected, not necessarily the UM chapter themselves. That's why the Genesis chapter's mention of note is their closeness to the UM. If every UM successor was like that then it wouldn't be worth mentioning for one chapter. This is similar to how the IF bloodline works as well. Chapters of Dorn will assist one another, but they certainly don't worship the Imperial Fists chapter. They're simply the oldest of the line. It's Dorn who's worshipped.
 

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You said UM were "spiritual leaders". Not sure exactly how, or where you got that from. It's the personalities that were involved. If Calgar was of another chapter/legion descended, and was as capable a diplomat and fighter etc etc, it would have nothing to do with it being the ultramarines, other than that they share a "bloodline", and hence, an additional reason for brotherhood - but at the same time, if there are more than any other legion, the ultramarines have constituent chapters during the second founding, then that means more than any other legion has had said chapters fall to chaos.



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The Astral Claws were taken down because they weren't paying their tithes and were blocking the collection of tithes from worlds around the Maelstrom.
Ehh...er...sorta.

After the fighting between the Marines Errant, Firehawks, and the Karthan forces against the Lamenters, Mantis Warriors, and Astral Claws burned on for a while, the High Lords decided the conflict needed to end and order the immediate cease fire of all parties and the surrender of the Maelstrom Warders' forces. They refused and that's why the Astral Claws were taken down.
 
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