[ohiocat110]

I took a spin around the modeling threads but it seems more appropriate to post the question here. What I'm looking for is an explanation of the limits of modifying and bashing models when it comes to game rules. I'll narrow it down with some specifics:

1. Can I make a model taller or shorter than it would typically stand mounted on a plain black base? Example, could I cut the foot stands off a WH Seraphim and replace them with something else?

2. Do base sizes matter? Example, could I mount a character model on a slightly larger/taller base for dramatic effect, or must we use what they come with?

3. Are their size or height limitations when it comes to bashing models or adding wargear? Am I in violation of the rules if I make a model wider, taller, shorter, or longer by adding gear?

I really enjoy the hobby aspect of model collecting and painting, but I'd like to keep them tournament legal. Any advice would be appreciated. If there's an existing thread on this, please redirect me as I didn't see one.

 

[Stella Cadente]

if you want to stay tournament legal, then if in doubt, change nothing, its easier and can avoid any potential arguments from twats and decisions from small minded judges.

or you could stick 2 fingers up to tournies and do whatever you like with the models you spent money on, most open minded opponents will have no arguments to make, its only the hardcore die hards you avoid.

 

[unixknight]

What Stella said.

But to be specific:

1. Can I make a model taller or shorter than it would typically stand mounted on a plain black base? Example, could I cut the foot stands off a WH Seraphim and replace them with something else?

Yes.

2. Do base sizes matter? Example, could I mount a character model on a slightly larger/taller base for dramatic effect, or must we use what they come with?

Yes, base sizes matter. The model must be on the size base it came with.

3. Are their size or height limitations when it comes to bashing models or adding wargear? Am I in violation of the rules if I make a model wider, taller, shorter, or longer by adding gear?

The short answer is no, keeping in mind the wargear depicted on the model must match the equipment given to it in your list. WYSIWYG.

Games Workshop encourages kitbashing and you can often see good examples in White Dwarf.

 

[Tim/Steve]

The basic rule that most people play with is that you cannot model for gaming advantage- if I feel I would get an advantage from a mod I've done then I take all disadvantages of the my mod, but dont take any advantages: so if I had a unit on some really thick scenic bases making them much higher up then usual and I was behind a wall I wouldnt normally be able to see over I would let the opponent shoot me, but I wouldnt shoot back (he can see me- I can take disadvantages of mods, but I cant see him since thats an advantage of the mod). I've never had anyone argue with anything I've changed or used based on these guidelines... and since all the MCs in my nid army used to all be the much smaller 2nd ed models (I dont really use MCs anymore, other then my trygon converted swarmlord) it was a problem I ran into a lot.


Of course there is always the fall back position: if it looks cool few gamers will care if its a benefit or not (unless its OTT)... if it looks shit and is obviously only done to get a bonus no-one will be happy with it...

 

[KhainiteAssassin]

WysiWyg is a rule used in alot of tournaments, which effectively require you to put a model representing a specific wargear effect on the field. so if you have a melta gun in your squad you need a model representing a melta gun. so no 3 shouldnt be a problem since weapons can not be targeted anyway, it has to be a main part of the body you can see, so head chest legs or arms.

as for 2. I believe that theres something about you can not put a model on a smaller base, but you could put it on a bigger base, with the exception of some models (Canis) it should not be a problem, even with the stiff anal retards out there

as for 1. its a difficult grey area, since I have seen people complain about it all the time, like for making a sniper in a prone position would come into this question aswell, which the asshats will bitch about, making something taller wouldnt do much though.

 

[Nave Senrag]

@ Khainite GW makes prone snipers. Though, I would have to say that making your entire army prone would be a stretch (although if you pulled it off I'd play it just because it would be awesome to see)

 

[KhainiteAssassin]

@ Khainite GW makes prone snipers. Though, I would have to say that making your entire army prone would be a stretch (although if you pulled it off I'd play it just because it would be awesome to see)

they make SOME snipers prone, they dont do it for others, like the inquisitor stand alone sniper, whats it called, the assassin.

SM scout snipers are never prone either.

 

[BodyCount]

my deathworld snipers are prone and i put them on calvary bases because... thats the only one that looks correct. make sure you got the weapons right and the bases right go nuts on the kit bashing.

 

[chromedog]

as for 2. I believe that theres something about you can not put a model on a smaller base, but you could put it on a bigger base, with the exception of some models (Canis) it should not be a problem, even with the stiff anal retards out there

That was last edition. Under 5th ed 40k, there is no longer such an allowance. Models must be on the bases they are supplied with. ONLY if it is supplied with two bases (one large, one small) are you permitted to use the larger base as either of them are the supplied ones.

 

[DeathKlokk]

I have done all three in the same army and played in tons of tournies (including Ard Boyz in 4 different rounds) and never had an issue at all.

As long as it's pretty clear it's being done for a modeling standpoint and not in a garnering advantages standpoint you should be fine. Barring the occasional Douchebag, but you wouldn't have wanted to play them anyway right?

 

[hippypancake]

I've had this discussion with tourny runners all the time

one base size up is ok that is it

so if you're guy is on a small base you can bump him to a medium base

 

[coke123]

Another question, what about square fantasy bases? For instance, a daemons player may want to use the same models for both 40k and fantasy, can he do this?

 

[Aramoro]

Yes, the only restriction is that you base the model on the base it was supplied with. Daemons are supplied with both round and square bases so he can use either.

Aramoro

 

[Cruor99]

Another question, what about square fantasy bases? For instance, a daemons player may want to use the same models for both 40k and fantasy, can he do this?

Going a little off-topic here, but if he were to have round bases, he could easily use a movement tray to the same effect as if it were to have square bases. I believe galeforce9 has a specific movement tray for this (I think even GW does, for the war of the rings mini's.)

 

[Aramoro]

Those ones are not quite right as in Warhammer the width of your facings is very important and those are a little big, you can rank the models on round bases but it's harder.

As Square bases are totally legal in 40K save yourself the headache and base all your Daemons on squares.

Aramoro

 

[unixknight]

That was last edition. Under 5th ed 40k, there is no longer such an allowance. Models must be on the bases they are supplied with. ONLY if it is supplied with two bases (one large, one small) are you permitted to use the larger base as either of them are the supplied ones.

Now here's a question just for discussion:

I have some old style Terminators that came with the small bases back in the day. In order to include them in my squad of more current Terminators, I attached them to the larger bases. So far, nobody's had a problem with that.

What say you all?

Edit:

I've had this discussion with tourny runners all the time

one base size up is ok that is it

so if you're guy is on a small base you can bump him to a medium base

I guess that prettymuch answers it

 

[KhainiteAssassin]

Now here's a question just for discussion:

I have some old style Terminators that came with the small bases back in the day. In order to include them in my squad of more current Terminators, I attached them to the larger bases. So far, nobody's had a problem with that.

What say you all?

Edit:




I guess that prettymuch answers it

since termies are also on the big bases, no one would bother you for putting the old metals on bigger bases

 

[Stormbrow II]

I believe galeforce9 has a specific movement tray for this

GF9's trays have 5 model wide ranks where LotR is only 4 making it more awkward to rank a unit. One of the lads in my group plays with these trays and they're very good.