[SHarrington]

Consider the situation
1.) IC can move faster then 6"
2.) Unit the IC is joined to cannot move faster then 6"
3.) IC wants to leave the unit.

Can the IC use its faster movement to leave the unit, or must it follow the "as fast as the slowest model" rule?

 

[Aramoro]

I would say no as he is still part of the unit when he tries to move and is thus caught by the 'Move as the slowest unit' thing.

Aramoro

 

[ChaosRedCorsairLord]

I believe you can separate the IC any time during the movement phase. So he separates from the unit before they move, then both move separately. I could be wrong though.

 

[Aramoro]

You leave a unit by moving out of coherency with it, at the point you start your move though you are still in the unit. The fact you're moving out of coherency might mean you are no longer bound by the unit movement restrictions but it doesn't say that so I would guess you are.

Aramoro

 

[shaantitus]

Frankly, if you are separating the ic from the unit then they are separated at the start of the movement phase so the ic can move at his full rate. If the opponent doesn't like it he is being a dick.

 

[Herr-Flick]

Altho im not shure of the rules on this issue, i'd say that he can move at his own movement rate.
Otherwise you could also just walk the unit out of range without moving the hc and only start his movement after he has left the unit coherency (it also might interfere with joining a unit if you only allow the hc to move the lowest distance if he joins or leaves a unit).

 

[Aramoro]

Frankly, if you are separating the ic from the unit then they are separated at the start of the movement phase so the ic can move at his full rate. If the opponent doesn't like it he is being a dick.

You can't just ignore any rules you like and call your opponent a dick for complaining. IC separate and join unit at the end of the movement phase by moving in and out of coherency.

I think you get no armour saves against my bolters, if you take them you're being a dick.

Aramoro

 

[Flakey]

He not ignoring rules, you are just making one up. Joining a unit happens at the end of the movement phase, but moving out of a unit happens as soon as coherency is lost, and not at the end as you said.

 

[darklove]

If the IC is faster then it should be very easy for him to move out of coherency with the attached unit. For example, if the IC moves like a jetbike and the unit moves like infantry then just more the IC 12" and the unit 6" = they are no longer in coherency and thus no longer joined. Why is that complicated?

 

[JackalMJ]

Its complicated because someone doesnt want a Necron Destroyer lord blitzing out of a squad of warriors and hammering into his vunerable ranks with a no saves warscythe. It'd be terriably illoigcal if such units could only move 6 inchs (having to go out of their way to break coherency) and then just stop despite a higher movement score.

I've never studied the rules very extensivly but I always assumed if you had a unit of mix speeds you could move each model to its mas speed so long as you stayed in coherency (like a model with 12 movement going from one side of a gun line to the other).

 

[Dave T Hobbit]

Otherwise you could also just walk the unit out of range without moving the hc and only start his movement after he has left the unit coherency

ICs leave the unit by moving out of coherency distance (p48); therefore I would say RAW you have to move the IC first rather than leave him behind as if you leave him behind he is not moving when he leaves coherency. I would however no challenge someone doing it the other way around.

it also might interfere with joining a unit if you only allow the hc to move the lowest distance if he joins or leaves a unit

Joining occurs at the end of the movement so he would not be restricted.

My interpretation is that the paragraph referring to moving at the speed of the slowest model is the same paragraph that says the IC must remain in coherency. Therefore at any one point either both apply or neither do; as the restriction on coherency is lifted at the point of leaving so is the restriction on movement.

 

[Aramoro]

From my reading the IC is in the unit until he moves out of coherency, thus he is bound by the movement restrictions of the unit until he has made it out by definition. And once you've ended your move outside coherency then you've ended your move, even if you are now faster.

My interpretation is that the paragraph referring to moving at the speed of the slowest model is the same paragraph that says the IC must remain in coherency. Therefore at any one point either both apply or neither do; as the restriction on coherency is lifted at the point of leaving so is the restriction on movement.

You could play it this way but that is not what the rules say.

Aramoro

 

[Aramoro]

He not ignoring rules, you are just making one up. Joining a unit happens at the end of the movement phase, but moving out of a unit happens as soon as coherency is lost, and not at the end as you said.

I'm not adding any rules, mearly paraphrasing. IC's definitely do not leave units at the start of the movement phase. You leave units by moving out of coherencey, and once you've moved you've moved the movement phase is essentially over for that model.

Aramoro

 

[darklove]

As soon as the IC has moved more than 2" from the unit then it is no longer part of the unit and is not restricted by their movement.
Note that joining happens at the end of the phase, while leaving occurs as soon as an IC moves out of coherency at any point in the movement phase. If the model's full movement has not been expended to achieve this then of course the remainder can still be used because it is not bound by the restrictions of the unit it has already left.

 

[Aramoro]

As soon as the IC has moved more than 2" from the unit then it is no longer part of the unit and is not restricted by their movement.
Note that joining happens at the end of the phase, while leaving occurs as soon as an IC moves out of coherency at any point in the movement phase. If the model's full movement has not been expended to achieve this then of course the remainder can still be used because it is not bound by the restrictions of the unit it has already left.

It doesn't say as soon as they're outside coherency. It might mean that who knows.

An independent character can leave a unit during the movement phase by moving out of coherency with it.

Does that mean you need to have completed your move or just any time during your move, it's unclear. The only indicator is that everywhere else we see move, it means the whole move, start to end. Some rules, like tank shocking have specific rules for when things happen along their move.

For example, moving through cover affects the whole move, if you'r 5" away from cover and you attempt to move into it you don't walk forward 5" then take a test, you take a test an if you roll a 3 then you can only go 3" despite the fact that gets you nowhere. In that case move means the whole movement start to end.

With that being the case I would assume moving out of coherency is the full movement of the IC. You measure, you pick him up you put him down outside of coherency. When you start the move you are in the unit, you are in fact moving that unit at this point, so you are bound by the restrictions of it. If the unit is in cover for instance you might not be able to even move far enough to get away if you roll badly. You work out far far you move at the start of your movement, not during your movement.

Aramoro

 

[Wolf_Lord_Skoll]

Just move the warriors out of coherency of the jetbike dude (leaving him where he is), then let the jetbike dude zip off after he's become his own unit. Don't have my BRB on me to check that you can move the unit to detatch the IC, but it would save arguements.

 

[darklove]

I think we agree that the rules are ambiguous, and that it is very open to interpretation.
So, the answer is: if someone disputes how you do it then roll-off for it.

My own interpretation is that the IC can move like a separate unit, at its full speed, in the turn it detaches.

 

[Herr-Flick]

ICs leave the unit by moving out of coherency distance (p48); therefore I would say RAW you have to move the IC first rather than leave him behind as if you leave him behind he is not moving when he leaves coherency. I would however no challenge someone doing it the other way around.

Joining occurs at the end of the movement so he would not be restricted.

My interpretation is that the paragraph referring to moving at the speed of the slowest model is the same paragraph that says the IC must remain in coherency. Therefore at any one point either both apply or neither do; as the restriction on coherency is lifted at the point of leaving so is the restriction on movement.

Hmmm, afaik nothing is sayd in the BRB about a unit moving out of coherency with a hq and if you'd tell me in a game i cant move my boys and let my warboss stand on the spot you'd have a hard time convincing me of it (especcially because i cant think up a scenario where i would do that... ).

But other than that i'd say your agreeing with me .

 

[Aramoro]

Just move the warriors out of coherency of the jetbike dude (leaving him where he is), then let the jetbike dude zip off after he's become his own unit. Don't have my BRB on me to check that you can move the unit to detatch the IC, but it would save arguements.

Notionally you can't, I quoted the relevant rule above. You would choose to move your Warriors unit, everyone them gets to move 6" (the slowest speed in the unit), or if you have to make a terrain check how ever far you roll. When you're moving a unit each model doesn't have to remain in coherency for it's move, otherwise squads would be pretty much immobile. If the whole squad of warriors moves away when you get to the jetbike dudes turn to move then you still have the opportunity to move back into coherency because you haven't left the unit yet. Your movement is 6" as you are still in that unit.

My own interpretation is that the IC can move like a separate unit, at its full speed, in the turn it detaches.

It sounds reasonable, but that's just not what the rules say. I think most people would let you play it like this.

Aramoro

 

[Herr-Flick]

According to the rule you quoted Aramo (pg.48 in the BRB) the only thing a hq has to do to leave a unit is leave the coherency.

So as i read it, if the hq moves more than 2" away from the unit it is relieved of the downsides and the upsides (do note the moved away part, i dont mean wile moving the whole unit). He is able to move his full movement but he can be targeted and so on.

I know that it is fairly usual to take the worst of 2 solutions with a rule dispute, but imo this one is fairly straightforward when you read it.