[whocares]

So, I searched for threads on this and didn't find any, which I found odd because moving enemy units is something new to 40k and there isn't much explanation in the chaos codex. Anyway, sorry if this has already been done.

So, with lash of submission can you actually move all the models in the enemy unit 2d6 inches in different directions breaking coherency, or do you have to move them 2d6 in the same direction? And if you can move them in different directions, can you move each individual model the full 2d6 or do you have to split it up between them? For example, you roll a 7 and there are two models, do you have to move one 3 inches and the other 4 totaling 7, or can you move them each 7 potentially putting them 14 inches apart?

 

[Lord Sinkoran]

No.

you move the unit in any direction keeping coherency. move them towards a combat unt. e.g. 2 units of 10 beserkers a lord with daemon weapon and a daemon prince this will hurt

 

[martin4696]

i thought you could move any module d6 inches providing you keep within coherency

martin

 

[Someguy]

It's 2D6 martin.

Each model goes the same distance. There hasn't yet been an official FAQ (hopefully there will be) but here is the house rule used at warhammer world, which may be helpful:

"The Lash of submission works as a standard psychic power, following all the normal shooting rules as per P52 of the main rulebook. If the power is successfully cast, the unit must be moved exactly 2D6" in the direction nominated by the Chaos player. The unit may be arranged as the Chaos player wishes, so long as no model moves more/less than the 2D6 roll, and the unit remains in unit coherency".

This explanation isn't perfect in my view. In particular, it is confusing if you have to pick a direction for the models and move them all the same distance but you can rearrange their formation. Clearly, if you move all the models the same distance in the same direction they will end up in the same formation. If it's the models that are moved in directions nominated by the player then it's fine, but that isn't what it says - even if it's probably their intent.

 

[Bishop120]

The explanantion so far we've gotten from the devs (outside of a new faq and not a LEGAL ruling but one to expect to become legal) is that it is basically a move at the chaos players descretion that can move upto the distance rolled by the 2D6 and can move in any legal way. Legal meaning it must maintain coherency and cant warp through impassable terrain and the such. Basically all the rules the owning player would have to follow the chaos player would follow and it can be moved any distance upto the 2D6 rolled.

Some of the nasty things which can be done with Lash...

Special/Heavy weapons/characters moved out where they can be assualted with minimal backup.
Heavy weapons moved so that they cant fire in the next turn.
Squads formed up into a line formation so that they are "easier" to assualt.
Squads formed up into as packed a formation as possible so that Artillary tears them apart.

 

[The Wraithlord]

With my Tson troops, I find it very useful for pulling Devs and HS squads into rapid fire range too

But yes, the codex says they may be moved UP TO the full distance using normal movement rules (aside from ignoring difficult terrain I believe) so you can group them together all you want. You CAN'T move them out of coherency however.

 

[Someguy]

the codex says they may be moved UP TO the full distance

I don't think the words "up to" are there. The fact that these words are normally there in movement rules but not in some other situations where movement is clearly not under full control (such as fall back) makes many people think that this is deliberate, and that's why the WH world clarification states you have to move the full distance.

On the other hand "up to" is missing from one or two cases where it seems not to make sense - jetbike movement being an example of this I believe. That weakens the case a little.

Horrible spell that pretty much ruins the chaos codex in my opinion. It encourages players to use all the sorts of scoping, range sniping and so on that most people consider to be poor sportsmanship. I'll be taking two in my tourney list. :fuck:

This will probably be a long discussion. IT's been a while since this one has come up but it's never been an easy one.

 

[Bishop120]

Heres the deal... GW Developers are not rules lawyers. They write stuff that makes sense to them on how they want it to be played but they never try to think of how people can break what they write or how their wording could be mis contrstrued. It wouldnt be so bad if they would put out a faq every 2-3 months to clear up how they may have mis-typed or just clarification but this once a year if THEY determine things are wrong is kinda wack.

In short I think we may never know what they really intended with this spell. Just make a house rule. Dont argue. If you and another person dis-agree then just flip a coin/die and "press on and color" as we say in the military. Dont get all broke up over this. Just do like I do and hate GW and not your oppenent.

 

[Sarigar]

@ Wraithlord: The codex does not state "up to". This can have a significant difference to gameplay.

For my own personal tourney armies, this ability alone existing is why I never go without Runes of Warding for my Eldar.

 

[LegionOfTheLost]

if the codex doesnt state up to then wouldnt it be possible to move them toward a unit. as the rules state that you cannot pass through an enemy unit and thus will have them stop 1 inch away? just a thought.

 

[whocares]

I appreciate and agree with all of the responses. I asked because at the local GW store they have decided that you can move a unit out of coherency with this power, which is horribly broken. I don't suppose I'll be able to talk them out of it without an official FAQ, but it's nice to know that what they said wasn't official, as they claimed.

Heavy weapons moved so that they cant fire in the next turn.

Would this really work? Since the squad is moved on the chaos player's turn would it still count as having moved on the opposing player's turn?

 

[Triumph Of Man]

I believe Bishop would be suggesting using lash to move the said heavies into a position where they can't see a target without moving.

 

[CATzeentch]

like behind the terrain they were just in:biggrin:

 

[The Wraithlord]

Wraithlord: The codex does not state "up to". This can have a significant difference to gameplay.

You are correct. I was going by recall as I didn't have the book at hand at the time. Personally, I always move them the full distance anyway as it puts them farther from where the opponent wanted them to be in the first place so this has never been an issue for me.

f the codex doesnt state up to then wouldnt it be possible to move them toward a unit. as the rules state that you cannot pass through an enemy unit and thus will have them stop 1 inch away? just a thought.

You can move them in any direction you wish. They stop before hitting enemy units, impassable terrain, or going off the board however.

 

[whocares]

I believe Bishop would be suggesting using lash to move the said heavies into a position where they can't see a target without moving.

Ah, that makes sense.

For a moment I feared I was horribly misunderstanding the rules.

 

[Damned Fist]

All that being said, it's a worthless power that you never, ever want to use in a game anyway.:ireful2: (In other words..., LEAVE MY DEVS ALONE!)

 

[The Wraithlord]

No, my sorcerer just LOVES to hang out with your devs and is needy enough to keep calling them over. Not his fault if the Tsons with him aren't as friendly

 

[purepolarpanzer]

I appreciate and agree with all of the responses. I asked because at the local GW store they have decided that you can move a unit out of coherency with this power, which is horribly broken.

It is broken. That's one reason I NEVER EVER let someone do that. The other is that it says move the unit. I see it as a fleeing roll in any direction, but over all you move them as normal. Not out of coherancy, but as someone would normally move the unit. Being able to move them out of coherancy when you already have the power to move them at your whim is getting your cake, eating it, stealing other people's cake, eating theirs, and then taking their wallets. No. Just no.

 

[The Wraithlord]

Being able to move them out of coherancy when you already have the power to move them at your whim is getting your cake, eating it, stealing other people's cake, eating theirs, and then taking their wallets. No. Just no.
Edit/Delete Message

100% agreement here. Whoever decided that they would allow that is a Chaos player with little to no scruples I am willing to bet.

 

[Someguy]

I don't really think it's possible to claim to have any scruples whatever when using lash. I mean it's not the same as cheating, but using an ability that everyone agrees is broken is pretty weird.

Not that it stops me of course. It just means there's no possible way I can claim the moral high ground. If someone thinks it can be used to move models out of coherency then that's not an insane thing to think, though I don't agree myself. Lash lets you do all kinds of other ridiculous (and in many cases worse) things, and it doesn't seem to say you can't move out of coherency. Hard to prove either way.