Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner
21 - 28 of 28 Posts

·
Executive Nitpicker
Joined
·
8,276 Posts
Here's an important thing about Attack bikes vs Speeders:

Krak Grenades

I know, it sounds silly to think that a single Krak Grenade attack is going to make any difference to a bike armed with a multimelta.

But just you wait til you miss with that damned melta. I've had it happen. I fired three shots at a friend's Vindicator once, two missed, one immobilized it, but nothing killed it or its big gun...til I said "Oh screw it!" and charged it with the nearest attack bike. I planted a krak grenade on its back end and blew it to hell. Crazy.

Seriously though, don't discount the points advantage. An assault cannon speeder is awesome (Especially since ours can have a multimelta and an assault cannon), but it literally costs twice as much as a multimelta bike, and while there's something to be said for the durability of vehicles vs small arms, and the survivability of fast moving skimmers...a pair of bikes are harder to kill, in most cases, than a single speeder.

However, a reality of the game is that sometime syou have to play with what you got.
That said, a speeder IS a good model, so fielding some won;t hurt you...but given a choice of attack bikes or speeders, bikes are more efficient.

The key to anti-armor for the Blood Angels under their new codex is one simple mantra: Mobile Melta.

Mobile Melta, Mobile Melta, Mobile Melta...chant it with me.

Veteran Assault squad can have two meltaguns, and they have jump packs.
Give them the meltas! Throw a powerfist in there too, bare minimum (More if you can afford it, but they're expensive these days). I can't stress that enough. VAS or HG, either one. Meltaguns + Jump Packs = WIN. Not only can they break tanks, but they can nuke characters, put holes in terminators and pretty much promise a kill or two before you get into the assault. Plasguns are handy but they deny you the charge. Best save those for static fire support.

Multimelta attack bikes are an awesome unit, but throwing a melta onto a land speeder is nice too. Assault Cannon + Melta is a good speeder combo. It packs enough heat to break tanks and thin out troops.

Got a piddly 5 man tac squad you don;t know what to do with? Slap a melta and a fist in there, put them in a rhino and turbo charge them into the fray.

As for dreadnoughts: Furiosos are cool, but they *need* a drop pod if they're actually going to live long enough to mix it up. If you buy Venerable you really should buy extra Armor to go with it. But be careful, the cost of a dreadnought can really snowball, esoecially if you pod it. Our army is expensive enough as it is.

Predators
Baals are lovely. I always bring two, just for the puns if nothing else.
Go for heavy bolter sponsons though. Flamers make awful sponson weapons because they're too short of range and too hard to position both effectively. Most of the time you'll only get to fire one.

However, an Annihilator is fun too, just don;t buy the lascannon sponsons for it. They cost a fortune and if you move at all you;re wasting points. Better to go with HBs...they may not help hunting tanks but they at least let you move and respond to threats more effectively.

Vindicators are fun too, and very Blood Angel...just don't get too attached...they draw a lot of fire and aren't always reliable...but they have a big psychological presence.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
267 Posts
Other than their reduced point cost, you get the following.

- The ability to participate in hand to hand combat (sometimes the extra 2 wounds is exactly what's needed to get cause that negative modifier for outnumbering).

- Smaller and easier to hide.

- Won't die to a single shot unless it's S8+.

- Can get an excellent Invulnerable save by using Turbo Boost

- Has the mighty twin-linked bolters of death!

Those are why I take 'em over Speeders.

Katie D

and as Galahad mentioned, they have str 6 krak grenades... not to be underestimated on a fast unit that can swing behind rear armour.....

What I have found on the BA list is that if you already have a bunch of bikes (say 2 squads of 3 MM) , then 1-2 Tornados outfitted for troop killing is good for dealing with things you really dont want to get close to with your A-Bikes.

I'm looking at you, Genestealers, Harlies, Slugga's ect....

Its also a great blocking unit when you have a solid firebase. They can't come within 1" of you speeder, if they kill it with shooting, they can't assault anything else. If they dont kill it in shooting, they can assault it (needing 6's to hit.....) and even if they kill it.... Now you have DT between him and your firebase and he can't consolidate after killing speeders.....

If I have to choose between the two... BA MMelta A- Bikes.

If I have a slot to spare.... :grin:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,372 Posts
Actually, I'd base the decision on whether to use the speeders or the bikes on how many other vehicles you have in your army. If you've got a bunch of vehicles already, speeders are great because your opponent won't have the guns to shoot at the speeders and your other vehicles, increasing overall survivability. If you've got almost no vehicles or no vehicles, attack bikes will do you much better.
 

·
Executive Nitpicker
Joined
·
8,276 Posts
Not necessarily.
While it's true that you shouldn't have speeders unless you already pack a lot of armour, the implication that Attack Bikes won't draw fire and make the enemy think twice about where to point his lascannons is a bit off, in my opinion.

If you want to reliably kill bikes, the best way to do it is with high-Str, low-AP weapons like lascannons, meltas and Krak Missiles. If they want to take out that annoying meltabike, they're going to have to dedicate some of their antitank firepower to the task. You *can* do it with bolters and plasguns, but it's easier if you can instakill it.

Speeders are a bad idea in lists that don't have many tanks because it's a no brainer for the enemy to decide where to point his lascannons. Meanwhile in a list that's low on vehicles the bikes will be an easier target for the heavy guns...but at the same time, they're cheaper. One lascannon hit can win 100 VP against a speeder, but you only get 50 for a bike.

Meanwhile in armor heavy lists, both the bikes and the speeders are more survivable, but the bike still has the points advantage. They have to tie up twice as many guns to deny you the same amount of points.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,372 Posts
Then again, 5/6 lascannon hits against an attack bike will kill it. 2/6 hits against a skimmer will kill it, not to mention that they have to roll to penetrate too.

I'm also seeing melta bikes coming in at 65 points compared to a melta speeder for 75. For an extra 10 points you get a unit that's twice as durable and can't be tied up in assault. Even an AC/HB speeder is only 80.
 

·
Executive Nitpicker
Joined
·
8,276 Posts
For a start, rolling to penetrate a speeder with a lascannon is pointless. If it's moving fast any hit will glance, and if for some reason you left it parked, 1 is a glance 2+ penetrates.

Yes, it's easier to kill a bike than a speeder with a lascannon (unless it turbo boost), but in a lot of cases it's better to tie up two guns for one turn than one gun for two or three. bikes can also make a lot better use of terrain than speeders can. They're smaller and lower to the ground, making them easier to hide and they don't have that pesky 'flyng above the cover' thing going for them. They're also size 2 while vehicles are size 3, if I recall.

As for the prices, remember we're not talking about regular SM
For ergular SM the AC speeder is the winner by a mile.

We're talking about Blood Angels.
MM bike for BA costs 50
AC speeder for BA costs 100
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,372 Posts
I meant other weapons would have to roll to penetrate, obviously a str 9 weapon will get a roll on the table :p

With the reduced cost of the bike and increased cost of the speeder for BAs, it seems like the bike is a much better choice, especially in an assault-focused army like the BA (since you're going to have forward troops to keep other assaulters off your bikes while they zoom up to blow up tanks).

2 multimelta shots seems a lot more handy for tank hunting than an AC and a MM given the points involved and the survivability issue.
 

·
Executive Nitpicker
Joined
·
8,276 Posts
<nods> As I said, under normal SM, the speeder wins out hands down, it;s just too much good stuff to turn down for the points.

But with the costs for Blood Angels the advantages no longer have as much weight. They also just feel more like a Blood Angel unit. Speeders are detached. They move around all over and shoot at things and swoop away. Bikes are more in your face.
 
21 - 28 of 28 Posts
Top