[Daddysen]

Ok here goes and please give constructive criticism don't just pipe in to say how Gay/cheesy/munchkin this is. This is what i want to do so I really want you guys to give me some input not just bust my chops for spaming Land Raiders

1000/1000 points
HQ: (100) Librarian- Sanguine Sword and Shield of Sanguinius
HQ: (100) Librarian- Sanguine Sword and Shield of Sanguinius
Troops: (330) Assault Squad(x5)- Power Fist, Land Raider Redeemer
Troops: (330) Assault Squad(x5)- Power Fist, Land Raider Redeemer
Heavy: (140) Predator with side sponson Lascannons , Dozer blade


1500/1500
HQ: (100) Librarian- Sanguine Sword and Shield of Sanguinius
HQ: (100) Librarian- Sanguine Sword and Shield of Sanguinius
Troops: (330) Assault Squad(x5)- Power Fist, Land Raider Redeemer
Troops: (330) Assault Squad(x5)- Power Fist, Land Raider Redeemer
Troops: (320) Assault Squad(x5)- Power weapon, Land Raider Redeemer
Troops: (320) Assault Squad(x5)- Power weapon, Land Raider Redeemer

OK those are the list i am thinking of making so have a go and and help me iron out the weaknesses

 

[KingOfCheese]

There is really nothing that these 2 lists excell at.
They are no good at shooting, and no good at close combat.

The 1 thing that they are good at is sitting inside their metal box and surviving, but with the amount of Melta/Lance weaponry thats jammed into each and every list these days, popping open a Land Raider isnt that hard anymore.


All lists require balance. I would generally try to spend no more than 30% of your points on Land Raiders.
Consider some Razorbacks. They are a good weapon platform, achieve the same results in transportation, survive well in numbers, and are a LOT cheaper.

 

[CLT40k]

I completely agree.. Speeders with Melta and Troops with melta will not be your friend...

And it would only be cheesy would be taking this list against somebody who didn't have any anti-AV14 in a friendly game... so if you want to hurt the feelings of your friend who plays 'nids... that would be cheese... but in general, this isn't scary cause it's only 4 units and LRs get blocked pretty easy.

 

[inigo montoya]

Land raider spam doesn't work well competitively and is just mean casually.

Back to the drawing board with you.

 

[LukeValantine]

Not to mention to be land raider spam you need at least 5 (waits to see if you actually know how to do this legally...hint I do).

 

[Inquisitor Malaclypse]

the fail of the list is not the concept, but rather that you're taking Redeemers; take standard pattern LR's. at least that you can move 6" fire one LC, and get your second shot from Power of the Machine Spirit.

despite what's been said, at 1K your list should have some psychological effects against some opponents and give trouble to other opponents who simply won't have adequate anti AV14 at 1K.

i play Eldar, Nids, and CSM, and at best in an all comers tourney, i wouldn't set up my non SM lists to handle two LR's at this point level. at these points with Eldar, i might have two Bright Lances.

with Tyranid the worst thing i could take against you is Zoanthropes, but you have Psychic Hoods, making it harder for the Zoans to fire, or Hive Guard, but then i need 6s to glance. of course i can take MCs to slap a LR around, but that means getting close.

CSM would be the biggest threat you have as they could take Chosen with 5 meltas, but if you keep from the edges, that could help, not to mention Oblits, but again, you're looking at 1K pts.: Oblts and Chosen are not cheap, so you might face two Oblits and one Chose squad.

personally, i would drop the Pred for two LS with HF, and change the powers on your Libby to Smite and Unleash Rage. you don't really need S10 if you have S8 with rerolls (Sgt. with PF) and Smite may be good for plain shootiness before an assault.

lastly this is absolutely right:

There is really nothing that these 2 lists excell at. They are no good at shooting, and no good at close combat. The 1 thing that they are good at is sitting inside their metal box and surviving

but then again, sometimes just surviving is all it takes to win a game. any one who's played a while can tell you how they've scraped a win just because they had an immobile Rhino with one Marine in it on an objective, or at least seen it happen.

and because most opponents build lists following this rule:

All lists require balance.

which is true, and it gives you a chance to win. yeah, you can pack melta spam into any lists, but that requires positioning, getting close, etc. most opponents will bring balanced armies to the table. this list isn't balanced. it'll be a pain to kill AV14, so remember, melta is your bane, but then again, who isn't afraid of melta weaponry in 5th edition?

IMO, with your list, you have to be clever, but i wouldn't disregard right off. but then again, i don't disregard any army list as a fail unless i've played several times against different armies.

good hunting.

 

[Daddysen]

You know i was gonna lash out at you guys for not helping me make this work but its ok.
Ill try again

anyone who has any suggestions to strengthing this list please chime in dont let the naysayers rule the forums. (although i bet if i asked help on running a razorback spam or lash/oblit list oh then you would have had a treasure trove of useful advise.)

I need help on a list and i can't very well ask for help on a list that does not exist so i posted something as a base starting point. i am aware that this list is not perfect other wise i would not have asked for help. you dig. (and who asks for help on a fully functional competative list anyway)

so before you just say something like " that list is shit it wont work" why not add "but drop this and this and it will give you enough points for this and this oh and instead of this do this." ( incase you did not know that usually how to respond when someone asks for help on an army list)

 

[Blood_Knight]

Dude, calm down. They are only telling you what they think. Sometimes your not always going to hear what you want to hear. Your the one who posted this list and came out the gate swinging. You posted a list and told people not to give you any crap about how cheesy it is. So whether you will admit it or not, you came to the table with the impression that you think you know your list is shit hot, don't really need any advice, but just to get praises and acceptence.

They are just saying your list might not work aswell or the way your hoping it will. As for giving you advice on what to do, Inquisitor Malaclypse made suggestions that i would of given you myself. But might i add that as symetrical as you made this list, you cant really change it much without altering the concept of the list.

IMO they are all right, your list is an annoyance to some at this point cost, but your just not going to steam roll over people like you think you are in this edition. Think about it, you banking souly on your LRs. What happens when they get popped? you have 22 guys who will die like dogs very fast when standing up against a more balanced list. The only way i could see to counter that would be to drop a libby (in the 1500pt list) and a assualt squad. Beef up your assault squad numbers and get some sang priests in there to help out the assualt units. They will need those buffs to get off an effective assault out of the LR.

In the end man, its a game. YOU came here asking OUR advice. We are not beating down your door to rag on your list or anyone elses for that matter. So man up a bit and take the critisism thats suppose to help you and stop taking it personally.

 

[inigo montoya]

I personaly find the razorback spam as annoying as land raider spam... ...as blood knight said, you are simply relying on the land raiders to win (or lose) the game for you. Against a skilled player with a well rounded list the best you can hop for is rock, paper, scissors. This is the epitome of a one trick pony. When it works it is cool, but it just won't work that often.

Without rebuilding the list from scratch, you need to be an actual threat outside of the land raiders. As it stands, your opponent pops your land raiders and wins.

 

[Daddysen]

Fair enough , however i did not think this list was awesome, and what ever i said about cheese and all that it was only because you say the word land raider and people groan, i just wanted to know if it could be made a viable list

what i was hoping for was this kind of response.

"Think about it, you banking souly on your LRs. What happens when they get popped? you have 22 guys who will die like dogs very fast when standing up against a more balanced list. The only way i could see to counter that would be to drop a libby (in the 1500pt list) and a assualt squad. Beef up your assault squad numbers and get some sang priests in there to help out the assualt units. They will need those buffs to get off an effective assault out of the LR."

thats all i was hoping for was some guys on my side with suggestions. Obviously i could have worded the first post better as the kind of responce it got was exactly what i did not want so I am really sorry for stirring you guys up.

So here is the revised. and if you guys forgive my error please try again as i won't whine like a little b*tch this time

1500/1500
HQ: (100) Librarian- Sanguine Sword and Shield of Sanguinius

Elites: (165) Sanguinary priests x 3 Melta bombs x 3

Troops: (411) Assault Squad(x7)- Power Fist, Land Raider
Troops: (411) Assault Squad(x7)- Power Fist, Land Raider
Troops: (411) Assault Squad(x7)- Power Fist, Land Raider

a little more shooty and a little more teeth in hand to hand. oh and this list comes in at 1498 points (I guess its still considered spam as it has more that two LR.)(I was under the impression that 2 is redundancy and 3+ is spam right? )

 

[High Marshall Mendark]

You want real Raider spam?? Try it, black templar style: mwahahahahahahah!!!!

HQ
Emperors Champion-100
Uphold the Honour vow

Troops
Crusader squad(5)-345
LRC transport

Crusader squad(5)-345
LRC transport

Crusader squad(5)-345
LRC transport

Crusader squad(5)-345
LRC transport

There, done!!

Now thats real raider spammage!!

Spam, spam, spam in a (av14) can!

hahahahahahaha!!!!!

 

[Blood_Knight]

@High Marshall Mendark

A.) thats not what he's asking for. Infact that list is just a BT version of exactly what he posted for BA.
B.) thats as many landraiders as he already had. so again not helping with the "spamming"

@Daddysen

Thats cool. No worries man. Just one of my little tiffs is when someone rolls in with a list they already assume is good, cant take the critisism, and/or regardless of what people suggest they disregard it and say what they have is better. so why post in the first place. ya know?

As for what would be considered spamming. @1500 pts 3 LRs MIGHT be considered spamming, im not sure, but its still alot to deal with at that point lvl.

List does look alot better. Only thing else i would suggest is somehow finding the points to give the sang priests some power weapons. Its not an absolute thing, it just would help out alot.

 

[CLT40k]

Fair enough , however i did not think this list was awesome, and what ever i said about cheese and all that it was only because you say the word land raider and people groan, i just wanted to know if it could be made a viable list

what i was hoping for was this kind of response.

"Think about it, you banking souly on your LRs. What happens when they get popped? you have 22 guys who will die like dogs very fast when standing up against a more balanced list. The only way i could see to counter that would be to drop a libby (in the 1500pt list) and a assualt squad. Beef up your assault squad numbers and get some sang priests in there to help out the assualt units. They will need those buffs to get off an effective assault out of the LR."

thats all i was hoping for was some guys on my side with suggestions. Obviously i could have worded the first post better as the kind of responce it got was exactly what i did not want so I am really sorry for stirring you guys up.

So here is the revised. and if you guys forgive my error please try again as i won't whine like a little b*tch this time

1500/1500
HQ: (100) Librarian- Sanguine Sword and Shield of Sanguinius

Elites: (165) Sanguinary priests x 3 Melta bombs x 3

Troops: (411) Assault Squad(x7)- Power Fist, Land Raider
Troops: (411) Assault Squad(x7)- Power Fist, Land Raider
Troops: (411) Assault Squad(x7)- Power Fist, Land Raider

a little more shooty and a little more teeth in hand to hand. oh and this list comes in at 1498 points (I guess its still considered spam as it has more that two LR.)(I was under the impression that 2 is redundancy and 3+ is spam right? )

Yup, I could totally help you with razorspam... :so_happy:

I personally don't think this is viable at this point level. If you were to take it to 2K or 2.5 then it might be viable... But not at 1500... there is just too much melta to ruin your day.

The make up of the squads looks decent...

Good powers on the Libby

For 2K, look to add speeders and preds (as the cheapest anti tank units out there...) But if you don't have other shooting threats, then you'll not be able to stop your opponent from giving you focused fire.... Which you can't do at 1500...

 

[Autarch-Andrew]

Land Raiders ehh I would suggest not going completly Land Raider spam maybe going half and half with Razorbacks a buddy of mine does the mix and he wins tournament all the time of course he plays Vanhilla vulkan but blood angles can do it better.because of discounted transports.

Try Something Like this:

Librarian-Blood Lance,the sanguine sword 100
Reclusiarch-130

2 Sanguinary Priests-Lighting claw 130


5 Termiantor Assault Squad-3 Lighting Claws,2 hammers 200
Land Raider Redeemer-Extra Armour 255
5 Terminator Assault Squad-3 Lighting Claws,2 hammers 200
Land Raider Redeemer-Extra Armour 255

Assault Squad-100
Razorback-Las/Plas 55
Assault Squad-100
Razorback-Las/Plas 55
5 Death Company-100
Razorback-Heavy Flamer,Extra Armour 70

1750

The Land Raiders Move up with the death company not far behind.everything had FNP except for the assault squads that hang back.its sort of a no braniner

 

[CLT40k]

Hey Andrew +rep for giving me ideas for a double Raider list... I hadn't really thought about using the BA codex for it... I kept looking to CSM or SW....

 

[Daddysen]

Land Raiders ehh I would suggest not going completly Land Raider spam maybe going half and half with Razorbacks a buddy of mine does the mix and he wins tournament all the time of course he plays Vanhilla vulkan but blood angles can do it better.because of discounted transports.

Try Something Like this:

Librarian-Blood Lance,the sanguine sword 100
Reclusiarch-130

2 Sanguinary Priests-Lighting claw 130


5 Termiantor Assault Squad-3 Lighting Claws,2 hammers 200
Land Raider Redeemer-Extra Armour 255
5 Terminator Assault Squad-3 Lighting Claws,2 hammers 200
Land Raider Redeemer-Extra Armour 255

Assault Squad-100
Razorback-Las/Plas 55
Assault Squad-100
Razorback-Las/Plas 55
5 Death Company-100
Razorback-Heavy Flamer,Extra Armour 70

1750

The Land Raiders Move up with the death company not far behind.everything had FNP except for the assault squads that hang back.its sort of a no braniner

I dig this list a lot. in fact i think ill go with something similar to this although i am not a fan of rage so ill probably leave the Death company at home as i can get feel no pain and furious charge from the priest. I am gonna post a list soon and see what you guys think although i think ill let this post die.

 

[LordWaffles]

so before you just say something like " that list is shit it wont work"

I only do that on chaos marine lists, because ninety percent of them ARE shit that WONT work.

As for you, why not try black templar, we can spam just as well for cheaper, and we get to ignore the lance rule which is what usually breaks LR is you're fighting nids/eldar/dark eldar.

maybe going half and half with Razorbacks a buddy of mine does the mix and he wins tournament all the time

One second and I'll show you why he wins tournaments.

Librarian-Blood Lance,the sanguine sword 100
Assault Squad-100
Razorback-Las/Plas 55
Assault Squad-100
Razorback-Las/Plas 55

This shit. Right here. A retarded, handless chimpanzee could win tournaments using the single best minmax of lasplas cheap transport with a librarian.

Honestly if you want to break tournaments, get the same shit but put a melta in each squad, give the libbies(two of them) both the blood lance and the 5+ cover save horsecrap. Then MAXIMIZE RAZORBACK OLOLOLOL.

Then just get three baal preds with shitstorm cannons and done. You now have won warhammer 40k.

 

[vulcan666]

i have an idea, though it would be for the codex chapeter.

Vukan he'stan
5 man tac squad-razorback
5 man tac squad-razorback
landspeeder, heavy flamer, multi-melta
landspeeder multi-melta, typhoon missile laucher
landspeeder multi-melta, typhoon missile laucher
landraider redeemer, multi-melta
landraider crusader, multi-melta
landraider crusader, multi-melta

you have got three raiders with this list and two razorbacks which can sit behind the large wall of av14 and protect anything. the landspeeders can hopefully act as either an anoyance or destroy important things.
the only real reason he'stan is in this list is for the re-rolls he gives for flamers and meltas, not many flamers but a lot of meltas.