[Angel of Blood]

Another argument! Oh isn't getting back into TT fun!

Okay, so the latest one. In a game I played. I managed to kill Belial in the middle of his Death Knight squad. Now no full units had been killed by this point. So the argument then arose, of whether Belial, or indeed any IC that has joined a unit, counts for first blood? An IC on his own counts as a unit, and would count as first blood, but it also says that they count as being in a unit for all rules and intents later on. The other side of that argument being, that if the IC dies, he has technically left the unit.

Furthermore, the rules for kill points states "Remember, independent characters count as individual units in their own right for the purpose of kill points" Now it seems odd that they would count as unit to give kill point, but not give points for first blood.

Did find other posts on other forums about this. Virtually all of them agree that IC's do grant first blood, but wanted to know what you guys think.

/discuss

 

[Nordicus]

Furthermore, the rules for kill points states "Remember, independent characters count as individual units in their own right for the purpose of kill points" Now it seems odd that they would count as unit to give kill point, but not give points for first blood.

Did find other posts on other forums about this. Virtually all of them agree that IC's do grant first blood, but wanted to know what you guys think.

I agree that he counts as first blood - Specifically I always refer to the rule for killpoints that you already stated; If he counts as his own killpoint, then he counts as a separate kill in my book. A separate kill grants the first blood point.

 

[Vaz]

He counts as part of the unit for all purposes IIRC.



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[mayegelt]

I would say belial as an independant character not bought with the unit is his own thing, thus if he died it would be first blood.
HOWEVER if Belial came with an optional squad of DW Knights as a command squad that he could not leave (so taking up only a single FOC slot) then he would be classed as part of the unit until it is all dead.

 

[R_Squared]

If you had to pay for him separately as a unit, then even if he is attached to a unit he is still an ic. I would count it as first blood on that basis.

 

[neferhet]

IC are indepentent units in all regards. they could wander alone. they count for first blood being another entirely different unit, even iif bought as adon for another unit and even if forced to join that unit. A character is different than an Independant character.

 

[MidnightSun]

They're a seperate datasheet, so they're a seperate unit - that's how I play it, anyhow.

 

[Mossy Toes]

They're a seperate datasheet, so they're a seperate unit - that's how I play it, anyhow.

That's how I'm inclined to play it too, honestly. Don't have any particular RAW backing, but... it meshes with my heuristic understanding of Warhammer as a gaming system, I guess? Which is to say this is such a nebulous and fuzzy area, but I think the implication of the IC being a kill point is that it counts as a unit killed, so counts as first blood.

 

[falcoso]

I would say he counts as first blood. Slay the Warlord is for killing the warlord which would imply the rule system acknowledges independant characters as a seperate unit, and they count as a seperate unit for killl points. First blood is just another killpoint for being the first person to score a killpoint

 

[MidnightSun]

I would say he counts as first blood. Slay the Warlord is for killing the warlord which would imply the rule system acknowledges independant characters as a seperate unit, and they count as a seperate unit for killl points. First blood is just another killpoint for being the first person to score a killpoint

Considering the Warlord can be a sergeant or something in a unit, that line of reasoning doesn't actually hold up any

 

[falcoso]

Considering the Warlord can be a sergeant or something in a unit, that line of reasoning doesn't actually hold up any

Ah I had actually forgotten about that since I have never actually seen anyone do it But still the IC is bought as a seperate unit and the independant character special rule is what lets that unit join o another unit. Therefore I woulds say that it is first blood.