[Kokkor Hekkus]

Hi guys,

I'm making a list of 1500pts for deamonkin to play against space wolves and recreate the epic battles from horus heresy. However i lack hounds (no units), only 1 unit of raptors and 1 unit of bikes. also only 1 juger (lord) and 1 skull cannon (I play mostly CSM undivided - black legion)

So, in order to fulfill the detachment i thought of:

Slaughtercult

deamon prince with wings
2 squads of zerkers (8 units); icon of wrath
2 squads of 5 possessed mounted on rhinos with dirge casters
2 squads of CMS (8 units) - AP with power sword and melta bombs; 2 plasmas
2 squads of cultists - 15 units (2 stubbers; auto pistol + ccw)
I have a squad of bloodletters but not sure if I will take them in

war engines
1 forgefiend

I fell a lack of options, with mostly CC profile, but that is khorne alright

Comments?

 

[Mossy Toes]

A codex to match your username!

What I might do is take enough units to fill out the minimum for a Blood Host, then take a Combined Arms Detachment alongside it to get in those Fast Attack units you want but don't quite fit the formations available.

Bloodletters are a decent enough unit, but if you have a limited number of minis available, I'd probably save them to summon via Blood Points instead.

I'd probably go with Lightning Claws over Power Swords on champs, just given the number of attacks you might well be getting thanks to Rage and the like; rerolls to wound will more often turn things your way than the 1 extra attack, I think.

I'm not seeing much dedicated anti-tank. A few meltabombs are nice, and the Forgefiend's S8 plus the plasma S7 can take out some light vehicles, maybe... I might one CSM squad with melta, one with plasma (especially since plasma can't shoot those guns then assault). And more rhinos carrying the Zerkers/CSM wouldn't be amiss, since a dead Rhino is another blood point to you! Could make space for at least one if you shrink the cultist squads down to minimum size, I figure...

Just one small extra thing: unfortunately, it looks like GW considers dirge casters a slaaneshi tool, since they're not in this book. Boo!

 

[Kokkor Hekkus]

A codex to match your username!

What I might do is take enough units to fill out the minimum for a Blood Host, then take a Combined Arms Detachment alongside it to get in those Fast Attack units you want but don't quite fit the formations available.

Bloodletters are a decent enough unit, but if you have a limited number of minis available, I'd probably save them to summon via Blood Points instead.

I'd probably go with Lightning Claws over Power Swords on champs, just given the number of attacks you might well be getting thanks to Rage and the like; rerolls to wound will more often turn things your way than the 1 extra attack, I think.

I'm not seeing much dedicated anti-tank. A few meltabombs are nice, and the Forgefiend's S8 plus the plasma S7 can take out some light vehicles, maybe... I might one CSM squad with melta, one with plasma (especially since plasma can't shoot those guns then assault). And more rhinos carrying the Zerkers/CSM wouldn't be amiss, since a dead Rhino is another blood point to you! Could make space for at least one if you shrink the cultist squads down to minimum size, I figure...

Just one small extra thing: unfortunately, it looks like GW considers dirge casters a slaaneshi tool, since they're not in this book. Boo!

Finally I have a codex to bring out the Khorne that is inside, but unfortunately I have invested more on black legion and know I lack some units.

The points are already at the maximum, so no room for fast attack in there. The option will be replace the deamon prince for a lord, but I want to take the prince outside the box and send him rampage over and over. Besides I'm not expecting that damn aegis on the other side or other anti-air, so a prince flying around will be nice.

The power sword are for point saving. No PF ore axes because I want to hit first or at the same time, but no points space for claws

As for the rhinos I only have 2 of them. If I had more they will be on zerkers of course.

As for anti tank the opponent will be space wolfs, so the only vehicles I'm expecting are 3 drop pods. I'm expecting some wolfs cavalry and maybe a dreadnought. I have to think how to get rid of those dogs before they cross the table.

No dirge casters? Damn GW! I have to take them out.

Finally any hints on how to skin those wolfs?

 

[Mossy Toes]

As for anti tank the opponent will be space wolfs, so the only vehicles I'm expecting are 3 drop pods. I'm expecting some wolfs cavalry and maybe a dreadnought. I have to think how to get rid of those dogs before they cross the table.

TWC are hard as nails, but they'll be a lot of points per squad. Use bait to sucker out their assaults, since they'll be overkilling any one of your squads, then counter-assault with a bunch of small units for your assault bonuses--you want your daemons with S5, your CSM with Rage. Or both, for the Possessed or the right Blood Tithe reward (especially as a runner-up on the Slaughter Cult if you've, say, spent the first level of reward on FNP for the whole army, or on summoning some 'letters).

An excellent blocking baffle is to disembark from Rhinos and to try to force the TWC to assault the Rhino, which is blocking the disembarkees from getting shot up. The expensive unit wastes their Assault phase and superior movement killing your cheap vehicle, giving you a Blood Tithe point, then you counter-assault with your swarm of small units.

I might go for a Maulerfiend instead of a Forgefiend: take lasher tendrils to drag the TWC down by -2A each, then ID the T5 multi-wound minis with your S10 attacks. Bam! If you have the mini or can proxy the FF, that is...

A Dread will be tough to handle, thanks to Walkers only being hit on front armor in close combat, even if some of your units have krak grenades. Might want some more meltabombs on zerker champs instead of those dirge casters.

Challenges will be your friend (not they they're optional, or anything). Even if your champ dies, that's a Blood Tithe point to you.

 

[Kokkor Hekkus]

I might go for a Maulerfiend instead of a Forgefiend: take lasher tendrils to drag the TWC down by -2A each, then ID the T5 multi-wound minis with your S10 attacks. Bam! If you have the mini or can proxy the FF, that is...

A Dread will be tough to handle, thanks to Walkers only being hit on front armor in close combat, even if some of your units have krak grenades. Might want some more meltabombs on zerker champs instead of those dirge casters.

Challenges will be your friend (not they they're optional, or anything). Even if your champ dies, that's a Blood Tithe point to you.

Don't have the Maulerfiend, but the FF will proxy very nice. The idea was to shoot the wolfs with the FF, since they have to cross the table, but they will probably survive the shooting.

Zerkers champs will have to go for it on the deardnough then

 

[Kokkor Hekkus]

Challenges will be your friend (not they they're optional, or anything). Even if your champ dies, that's a Blood Tithe point to you.

It's painfull to say this but what if I trade the prince for a lord with the relic axe? point reduction and a cheaper unit to go all the way. If he dies ... here comes the beast

What do you say?

 

[Mossy Toes]

It's painfull to say this but what if I trade the prince for a lord with the relic axe? point reduction and a cheaper unit to go all the way. If he dies ... here comes the beast

What do you say?

Only downside is that since summoned Thirsters count as coming in from Deep Strike, and FMCs must enter from Deep Strike Reserve Swooping, and you can't assault the turn your BT changes flight modes from Swooping to Gliding... you need to spend a turn or two (depending if your character was killed during the enemy turn or your turn) doing nothing but taking D3 wounds and not killing anything except with a single lash attack.

Still, for only twice the cost of an Axe of Khorne, an Axe of Khorne that summons a Bloodthirster... is a damned nice deterrent to keep your opponent from trying for Slay the Warlord. Or you can throw your Warlord out as an early bait for a TWC assault, swap him for the Bloodthirster as early as possible, and still have some later-game turns you can kill stuff with, before that BT's ticking time bomb expires. So yeah, consider it, if it lets you field more small units you can throw into the bloody melee for Blood Tithe points. Two units of 1 Spawn, for instance. If the TWC have to assault one of those it's a big waste of their massive assault, but if you have some of those assaulting into an ongoing fight--hell, might as well pile on more assaulting bonuses and attacks.

 

[Kokkor Hekkus]

Only downside is that since summoned Thirsters count as coming in from Deep Strike, and FMCs must enter from Deep Strike Reserve Swooping, and you can't assault the turn your BT changes flight modes from Swooping to Gliding... you need to spend a turn or two (depending if your character was killed during the enemy turn or your turn) doing nothing but taking D3 wounds and not killing anything except with a single lash attack.

Still, for only twice the cost of an Axe of Khorne, an Axe of Khorne that summons a Bloodthirster... is a damned nice deterrent to keep your opponent from trying for Slay the Warlord. Or you can throw your Warlord out as an early bait for a TWC assault, swap him for the Bloodthirster as early as possible, and still have some later-game turns you can kill stuff with, before that BT's ticking time bomb expires. So yeah, consider it, if it lets you field more small units you can throw into the bloody melee for Blood Tithe points. Two units of 1 Spawn, for instance. If the TWC have to assault one of those it's a big waste of their massive assault, but if you have some of those assaulting into an ongoing fight--hell, might as well pile on more assaulting bonuses and attacks.

Reporting:
Got a lot of Blood points. Cultist did the human shield thing to the TWC, and I charged them with zerkers, but the damn dogs are tough as hell, specially with the inv 3+ granted by the shield. Lord died on opponent 2nd turn, as expected, but didn't did much of the damage before it was gone. The S user thing isn't a catchy.

Possessed are resistant, and maybe good, but didn't showed much. However the bonus of AP3 that I got is very nice.

My maulerfiend died on turn 2. Drop pod in the face with a squad of wolfs with melta (a melta popping in your face at opponent turn 1 hurts a lot) and the got zapped bay the wolfs flying coffin.

Able to put 2 bloodthirters! on the table on turn 3, but at that time the game was already decided (bad luck in tactical objectives - I grab the almost impossible ones while my opponent got the nearest objectives and the "I already achieved that condition - automatic points" cards.

I must say I'm a little disappointed. The S6/7 attacks don't do much of a damage. I was able to wipe a drop pod in an assault (and get a victory point while denying the opponent 2) and not more. It then concentrated all of enemy fire and got the final wound on a multi assault from TWC and dreadnought. However it did nice for a summoned unit.

The other didn't do nothing - Vector strike suck (AV12 of the flyer) and got zapped at the end.

Major points: fun at playing; it's an original codex and it will give lots of fun. The slaughtercult gives you a lot of points to use.

Drawbacks: The summoning only starts at 5 points, and we want to put a least a bloodthirster on the table. suicidal tendencies is the dish of the day and when there are tactical objectives "kill a squad in shooting"; "kill a vehicle"; "kill a FMC" you're giving too much points to the opponent (add that to the 99,99% that he will make first blood". Also there is lack of anti-tank (must get a land raider or two) and anti-air.

Conclusion: fun codex, different from the rest, and that reminds the age when CSM could summon deamons, but I have doubts about the competitive part. I will try it more

 

[Mossy Toes]

Major points: fun at playing; it's an original codex and it will give lots of fun. The slaughtercult gives you a lot of points to use.

Drawbacks: The summoning only starts at 5 points, and we want to put a least a bloodthirster on the table. suicidal tendencies is the dish of the day and when there are tactical objectives "kill a squad in shooting"; "kill a vehicle"; "kill a FMC" you're giving too much points to the opponent (add that to the 99,99% that he will make first blood". Also there is lack of anti-tank (must get a land raider or two) and anti-air.

Conclusion: fun codex, different from the rest, and that reminds the age when CSM could summon deamons, but I have doubts about the competitive part. I will try it more

It gets worse when you're playing Eternal War missions: if you roll Purge The Alien, you've basically lost right then and there, and the way my lists end up, same goes for The Scouring--giving up too many extra points to enemies via kill points and Fast Attack choices.

I get my anti-tank largely in the form of a handful of biker squads with dual melta, from a Gorepack or two, but... anti-air is decidedly limited, for Daemonkin, especially given that they can't take Forge World units, since they're not "Codex: CSM."

I like the ability to punish enemies for mopping up your units; I like the ability to bring in reinforcements wherever they're most needed. I need to playtest more, but I honestly think that summoning small squads every turn (after the first) is a better expense of Blood Points rather than saving up for a Bloodthirster every other turn, or whenever, if you can swing it. The constant new units to new quarters, DSing in to threaten backfield enemy units or claim the objectives you need, while still getting a lesser reward on your Slaughter Cult... it makes for a deceptively flexible and tactical playstyle, I find. On the one hand, you feed enemies interchangeable units that swarm them by virtue of all being decent in close combat and having some assault bonuses; on the other, you have to make some real value judgement about trying to get your own units killed for blood points, or holding them back to score on an objective/get Linebreaker/etc.