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We can only hope GW can make a FAQ that says something like. "Flying monsterous creatures do not have to start in swooping mode when they are summoned via a spell or tithe from deepstrike."
 

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Entropy Fetishist
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Wondering how well a Blood Host that consists of a Slaughter Cult and a Gorepack (for the minimum 1-8 aux choices), for the Blood Tithe, plus a CAD of 6 cultist squads, would fly. Add in 5 solo spawn as distraction/blood tithe earners... an entirely sacrificial army bent on tying up the enemy army in cc while dying in droves, summoning in replacements, and earning any objectives they are called upon to handle. Would do better in Maelstrom than in Eternal War, if only on account of the risk of rolling the Scouring or Purge the Alien--that's a lot of flimsy Fast Attack and kill points...

1750 WEAKSPAM SACRIFICIAL LIST

Blood Host

Slaughter Cult

Lord w/ Axe of Ruin, meltabombs

8 Bloodletters
8 Bloodletters

5 Possessed w/ Rhino

1 Spawn
1 Spawn

8 Cultists
8 Cultists


Gorepack

3 Bikers w/ 2x melta
3 Bikers w/ 2x melta
3 Bikers w/ 2x melta
3 Bikers w/ 2x melta
5 Flesh Hounds
5 Flesh Hounds
5 Flesh Hounds
5 Flesh Hounds


K:DK CAD

Herald of Khorne

8 Cultists
8 Cultists
8 Cultists
8 Cultists

1 Spawn
1 Spawn
1 Spawn

If forced to go up to 1850, I imagine I'd take the Cultist squads up to 6 in the CAD, bringing the total number of such squads up to a nice and holy 8. I'd like 8 already, but that would mean sacrificing some bikers/flesh hounds and a spawn/rhino, or something--same number of units for a less useful and mobile (and/or more expensive, in the case of the spawn or my lone rhino) unit. Thanks, I'm not dropping any of my 8 meltaguns...
 

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Nope. Unfortunately, Flying Monstrous Creatures coming in from Deep Strike Reserve (and conjured/summoned units count as coming in from Deep Strike Reserve) must Swoop the turn they come into play. I assume it's to represent a Tyranid Harpy dive-bombing from flying way above the battlefield, and such, so it doesn't make much sense for a daemon ripping his way out of some champion, but... it's how the rules are written. Bloodthirsters nee to come on Swooping, so your first turn you can move them you need to change them to Gliding so you can move them next turn. Frustrating, but...
I feel like that may be FAQed since thats a very odd chian of events
 

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Entropy Fetishist
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I feel like that may be FAQed since thats a very odd chian of events
Well, it's been the case for summoned Bloodthirsters and Lords of Change since 7th dropped with Malefic Daemonology in, and we've yet to see an FAQ. Now that a lot of folks will be summoning Bloodthirsters very frequently, we may finally get one, but...

Damn it, I've suffered longer!
 

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So couldn't you say that once its summoned that the moment hes on the table you can then say he is switching to gliding? also If he gets shot at he can be grounded, once that happens you are the able to assault once its your turn agian, correct?
 

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Entropy Fetishist
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So couldn't you say that once its summoned that the moment hes on the table you can then say he is switching to gliding? also If he gets shot at he can be grounded, once that happens you are the able to assault once its your turn agian, correct?
Nope, Deep Striking FMCs count as Swooping when they come in, and you can't move them (giving them the chance to switch from Swooping to Gliding) that turn. So yes, you actively hope that they take an unsaved wound so that they can fail a 3+ roll so they take a S9 AP2 hit...

All so that they can assault the turn they come in. That's an unsaved wound (and probably another from grounding), on top of the D3 wounds with only Invulns to save at the end of each of your turns, for that Axe-summoned BT.

Seriously? Seriously.
 

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hmm hope this is fixed! Well I think I will build my army to the list i earlier came up with, 3 Blood letters on the table at once is scary
 

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JUGGERNUT
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Discussion Starter #48
Not that anybody was really wondering about Karanak being in the webstore for KD, but:

Hello Alex,

Thank you for writing in to us. Karanak is not present in the Khorne Daemonkin Codex; you are correct about that. The web listing Karanak amongst that army entry on the webstore appears to possibly be in error, and we have submitted a note about this to the Web Team to address.

Thank you again for bringing this to our attention, and please let us know should you have any other questions.
 

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because turning a 20!?! point naked cultist champion into a 250 point bloodthirster is a hell of a deal?

of course, those of us "hoping' for an FAQ to change the flight modes of summoned creatures are probably wasting their breath.... this isn't a case of something being unclear, as the rules are actually very clear regarding this point. its just that we don't want it to work this way=(
 

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Thoughts on this?

Fisti-claw terminator lord with a 4man terminator retinue
8 Possessed, CSM, and Berzerkes to complete the cult formation
2 Units of Bloodcrushers to complete the onslaught formation

Pretty straight forward game plane of rushing everything up the board except maybe the CSM then DSing the termie ball. Would be just over 1000pts

Picking up the bloodcrushers to form the brazen onslaught would be easier on my wallet than building a gore pack right away since i have neither bikes nor hounds. A second wave purchase of the gore pack plus the juggerlord i already have would supplement this list pretty well i think.

Though i could also use the jugger lord with the bloodcrushers instead of the termie lord, quite a few more points though.
 

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The flying summons though are just hell of a lot worse than the non flying ones if summoned.
Something odd did occur to me. And this is something from the beardy playbook.

INTERCEPTOR
At the end of the enemy Movement phase, a weapon with the Interceptor special rule can be fired at any one unit that has arrived from Reserve within its range and line of sight. If this rule is used, the weapon cannot be fired in the next turn, but the firing model can shoot a different weapon if it has one.
This rule here doesnt say you cant fire at friendly models or that the model has to have arrived on this turns reserve.
So you could technically shoot your own bloodthirster down on your opponents turn... though this would be really dodgy, and you would likely have to make sure you had a good crash site that he wouldnt be blown to bits at as he cant jink once he crashes.
Gooooo RAI vs RAW!
 

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JUGGERNUT
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Discussion Starter #56 (Edited)
Fair enough, @Vaz.

To use the rulebook instead of an awkwardly phrased question,

From page 30, in the Shooting Phase section, under the heading Choose a Target:

Once you have chosen the unit that you want to shoot with, choose a single enemy unit for them to shoot at.
Firing with Interceptor is still making a shooting attack, after all.
 

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Entropy Fetishist
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It's not a 20pt Champion though is it? It's the hundreds of points spent on units you're intending to suicide; and not even suiciding with any particular purpose outside of BP generation Each point is just too expensive to generate a point. In fact, you're gimping your army even more by taking them.
Oh, I know. That "Weakspam Sacrificial List" I posted is mostly a proof-of-concept that I would play while testing the boundaries of the mechanics enabled by the book rather than a serious and competitive army; on-paper analysis is all well and good, but seeing how it performs on table is still an important factor, to my eyes.

I want to get a sense for how well the mechanic of "unit losses give some potential bonus" behaves more than "try to rush to 8 Blood points for a Bloodthirster." For all I know, it might end up being a potent list that aims for board control, mass tarpitting of the enemy army, objective and blood point scoring, and constant universal Feel No Pain, or something. I'm going to field combinations that I know aren't optimal while trying to figure out unusual combinations that perform well--isn't that how the player with 6 Lictors, 3 Mawlocs, and 3 Flyrants won the LVO (against a player with about 56 Scouts and some Devastators in the finals)?
 

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Warsmith
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I want to get a sense for how well the mechanic of "unit losses give some potential bonus" behaves more than "try to rush to 8 Blood points for a Bloodthirster."
I think the trick is not for the Bloodthirster, but for the smaller payouts. To make the opponent become wary of wiping out units..

I had been thinking about the CAD- Cultist plan. 6 small squads can grab objectives and ern victory points.. Cheaply leaving the rest of the army to try and table the opponent. They then have the choice of dealing with the Cultists.. (which gives you Blood Points, which can give you reinforcements) Or concentrate on your 'death-stars' which will let your Cultists win you the game!
 

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Entropy Fetishist
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Having b
I think the trick is not for the Bloodthirster, but for the smaller payouts. To make the opponent become wary of wiping out units..

I had been thinking about the CAD- Cultist plan. 6 small squads can grab objectives and ern victory points.. Cheaply leaving the rest of the army to try and table the opponent. They then have the choice of dealing with the Cultists.. (which gives you Blood Points, which can give you reinforcements) Or concentrate on your 'death-stars' which will let your Cultists win you the game!
FNP every other turn (at worst--you may have the sustained combats against squishy targets on later turns to get it every turn) is a helluva drug. Getting, say, Furious Charge and Rage on those minis in the Slaughter Cult who don't have both (which is to say, everyone except the Possessed) to boot for free also sounds quite nice.

The real issue with MSU-spam lists I see here is that they give up a whole kill points or Scouring FA points--restraint may well be the order of the day, making more balanced lists focused on killing rather than dying (albeit still with interchangeable, multiply redundant units who can flexibly target a number of different units, ideally). You don't want to lose 1/3 of your Eternal War missions (or half the missions in a lot of the competitive tournament scene, which typically split VPs between two such categories) during the list-building phase alone.
 
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