[spanner94ezekiel]

And there we have the whole Khorne vs Slaanesh fight/rivalry/whatever.

 

[joebauerek]

For Dragio couldnt the same be said for Nurgle to just make Mortarion and just give him the power to make him win? I know khorne is god of war and everything but still a gods a god. But i see the point of the curses but the fact hes defeated a shed load of daemons should show hes an able fighter? (I dont mean to sound a fanboy im just looking at the fluff i have no ties to grey knights at all)

As for Lysander he may be slow but if he makes contact he is going to make Kharn hurt. Plus he has a sheild which can make him even more durable than he already is.

Marneus Calgar chould but i feel hes more of a strategist than a worrior however able a worrior he may be. I reckon he might pull an arm off Kharn which really pisses him off and then decapitates Calgar and uses his skull as a cup for a nice beer to congradulate himself... lol

 

[cegorach]

Now, I know this is probably a stupid idea, and I am so out of date with fluff that I couldn't possibly stake any points on this. But, could Ahriman take him?

I mean yes this dude is angry against psykers, but he hates everyone, and yeah kharn was raised from the dead by Khorne or something, but Ahriman was saved from Magnus by Tzeentch, so he obviously has plans for him, and unless those plans were already realised, would Tzeentch let him lose? Now no matter how much battle experience buys you, knowledge of the dark arts directly affects your psychic prowess. Like I said I have no kind of real sourcing to back up the effectiveness of Ahriman and maybe I am not giving Kharn nearly enough credit.

But the only source I have to go on is "A Thousand Sons" where a bunch of sorcerors used powers that totally butchering Space Wolves, untill you know, the backfire element and the "Russ" factor. But I am pretty certain that Ahriman will have neither of these problems when facing Kharn.

Yes maybe being Khorne's chosen one might give a certain, dampening effect on psychic powers, but 10,000 years (Yes I know not literally or acuratly given the "warp" effect on time) of gathering knowledge and increasing your power must have some kind of, bonuses. And I am sure the foresight would come in a little handy in hand to hand combat, given the amount of warp energy centered around these two individuals that should also (hopefully) give Ahriman the edge.

(Thousand Son Fanboy powers activated)

 

[Deadeye776]

Someone said that the original Emperor's Champion was killed by Kharn? I'm a fan of both so I'd like to know how this happened. All I've ever read about Sigismund was that he was considered to be one of if not the best swordsman in the Astartes. The other thing is once Dorn gave him the go ahead, he kicked everyone's ass he faced at the seige of Terra. I always wondered what happened to him as his death story I haven't found.

As for the topic of the post, Shrike taking Kharn is highly improbable. Kharn is way to much for anyone but guys like Kaldor Draigo or Hector Rex.

 

[SoL Berzerker]

Hahaha, I love how this has turned into Kharn Vs the world. I guess my friend and I have seriously underestimated who Kharn was.

How exactly would Kharn stack up against something bigger than he was? Say the Swarmlord? The Swarmlord is quite a combatant, he is afterall given a 4+ invul for his combative skill. This could just be a stupid match up but you guys are really selling Kharn as one of the ultimate badasses.

 

[CPT Killjoy]

Didn't mean to take over the thread SoL... Sorry about that.

That being said, here's what I think:

Lysander is an amazing warrior, and against anyone else, I would say he would have a solid shot. But Kharn has literally killed people like him before, on Terra, Thousands of Years ago, and has since gained even more experiance an favor with Khrone. Because of that, I don't think he really has a shot. Badass yes, Kharn killer, no.

Ahriman is an interesting. I would have to think that really comes down to a battle of wills between Khrone and Tzeentch. Honestly, I don't think Tzeentch would allow this battle to happen since he seems to have plans for Ahriman. That being said, no matter how good of a psyker Ahriman may be, Kharn isn't effected by psykers generally speaking (except to become even angrier since they are an affront to his God). Additionally he is far and beyond a better CC fighter than Ahriman. I think that best case scenario for Ahriman here is he opens the webway and runs away.

Lucius is a good candidate I think. He is an amazing CC fighter, and even if he loses, he always comes back. My only question is that while he is supposed to be one of the best CC fighters around, why has he lost so many times? To my knowledge, Kharn has only truly lost a CC combat once. Lucius has lost hundreds of times to all sorts of warriors, hence his armor. While this does give him vast amounts of experience, at best it only puts him on par with Kharn experience wise I think. Still though, I have to give him a shot if for no other reason than he actually thinks about what he doing and has a higher skill level with his weapon as per the current codex.

Swarmlord is an MC, and it would be hard for Kharn to kill it alone. I have no idea whether or not he has fought something that big by himself before, so I’ll have to differ to everyone else here for that one.

Oh and Doombreed would definitely win. As the oldest Daemon Prince, I can’t imagine anything really having a shot at killing him in CC other than a C’tan (not this Shard BS the Necrons have now, but a real one)

I’m surprised no one brought up the Avatar of Khaine. I know that they have fallen to Primarchs before, but I’m not sure if a mortal* has killed one alone before in CC (*granted Kharn isn’t fully mortal, but still)

Who is Vect? I have never heard of him before.

 

[gen.ahab]

Wait, Kharn killed Sigismund? Is this before of after Sigismund filleted the giant douche on a mountain dead traitor marines?

 

[Sethis]

Kharn made his name by butchering thousands of noobs/civilians/everyday marines. A real Chapter Master or equivalent would kick his ass all around the room.

Lucius died so many times because he actively seeks out the very best, the leaders, the elites, and then takes them on one at a time in 1v1 combat. Kharn just stands in a mob of people and swings his axe like a thresher until everyone has stopped breathing.

Vs questions are silly anyway, because it comes down to who has the better plot armour, and the answer is of course Marneus Calgar.

 

[joebauerek]

@ CPT Killjoy didnt Marneus Calgar rip an avatar of Khaine into peices?

And a fight between Kharn and Doombreed who ever lost would have their soul or essance riped to peices as Khorne dispises weaklings and their skull would become part of his throne.

And im supprised no one has said Loken as he has already beaten Kharn once?

 

[CPT Killjoy]

I didn't know Calgar had destroyed one. Not a big Ultramarines fan. What story is that in? Or is it referenced somewhere else (i.e. in a codex)?

Have to agree with you Joe on Doombreed vs Kharn. I still think Doombreed would slaughter him, although Khrone would probably resurrect him on principle. He has brought way too many skulls to the throne for him to just disappear. Plus anyone crazy enough to face off against Doombreed 1v1 would have to be highly favored by the Blood God (or deluded into thinking they could win by the Emperor).

Still haven't heard about Vect. Anyone know who this is?


By the way Sethis, if all Kharn did was kill helpless (or basically helpless) victims, he wouldn't have survived for anywhere near this long, nor would he be feared by other chaos marines (since, in general, they see eachother as weak). I'm going to have to dig up some fluff to prove it though. More to follow.......

 

[ckcrawford]

Kharn can't be killed. So that in itself is a fucking problem. Plus Kharn has more than 10,000 years of Khorne's blessing and experience. Don't think this is a fair fight. Forget game rules.

 

[Deadeye776]

Kharn never beat Sigismund to my knowledge. Even before those events Sigismund was considered to be one of the top Astartes warriors even up there with Abaddon. From what I remember of when he became Emperor's Champion at the walls of the palace was "Hey Sigismund, take this armor and sword and show these animals who's boss." To which Sigismund carved his way into legend. In no story I ever heard has Kharn beaten Sigismund and if they met at Terra, Kharn got his ass handed to him.

 

[Sethis]

Still haven't heard about Vect. Anyone know who this is?

Asdrubal Vect, the biggest Dark Eldar badass, has been alive since the Fall of the Eldar and the birth of Slaanesh, spending a lot of his free time before and since fighting in gladiatorial arenas.

By the way Sethis, if all Kharn did was kill helpless (or basically helpless) victims, he wouldn't have survived for anywhere near this long, nor would he be feared by other chaos marines (since, in general, they see eachother as weak). I'm going to have to dig up some fluff to prove it though. More to follow.......

I've never heard of him facing off against any other "Elite" character and winning. He massacres enemy space marines, friendly space marines, and a lot of unfriendly aliens, but to my knowledge he's never described as having fought any 1v1 duels of note. He'd murder a normal 40k Captain simply through experience and insane Khorne-induced strength, but he'd lose against anyone exceptional.

 

[joebauerek]

@CPT Killjoy

Its on his lexicanum page and more specifics are on the page for the battle or Orar's Sepulchre (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Battle_for_Orar's_Sepulchre)

As for kharn vs and khornate daemon..... it would all be for khornes amusment... hed never let such artful and skillful worriors die. He just wants more blood.

 

[Deadeye776]

Though I don't believe Kharn could take someone like Sigismund I don't believe he only targets weak or innocent targets. Something akin to the Skulltaker, Khorne does sometimes look to the skulls that are being placed on his throne. I doubt the pride of the Blood God would be satiated by such meak offerings and Kharn would not be held in such high esteem if he only brought in old woman and children.

 

[LukeValantine]

I've never heard of him facing off against any other "Elite" character and winning. He massacres enemy space marines, friendly space marines, and a lot of unfriendly aliens, but to my knowledge he's never described as having fought any 1v1 duels of note. He'd murder a normal 40k Captain simply through experience and insane Khorne-induced strength, but he'd lose against anyone exceptional.

...I can't tell if your trolling at this point? Even considering the nature of the warp Kharn has been from one blood soaked battle field to a another for centuries on end. He unlike chapter masters and eldar leaders is not a tactician but a warriors and murderer meaning that it is insane to think that he hasn't killed everything from orc warbosses to chapter masters (Dime a dozen when you consider the tens of thousands that have died since the heresy). I mean realistically he is not the type to leave such a task to a underling or heavy weapon.

Sure there have been some over estimates of his power in this thread, but your comments are so detached from the fluff and the table top that one has to wounder if your not heavily biased or just trolling at this point. Sure unlike other GW wank fests their aren't 100 stories floating around of him killing space gods and the like, but judging by the ridiculous amping up of the fluff I expect their will be plenty of stupid stories about him killing entire craft worlds and murdering space marine chapters single handedly....is that really what you want?

 

[Farseer Darvaleth]

Calgar killed an Avatar, and so has Fulgrim; the problem for the Avatars to ever be remotely as powerful as they perhaps could (or even should) be is because we don't know how many of them there are, and therefore don't know how big a portion of Khaine's power each one holds.

It's a similar scenario to C'tan Shards, except the C'tan were split into hundreds of Shards each and every Shard is complete badass, hence the original C'tan literally being Star Gods... they were just ridiculous. C'tan vs Primarch, C'tan wins, but C'tan Shard vs Primarch, Shard's toast.

 

[MidnightSun]

I know that every Craftworld has an Avatar, and I know that at least two of them are gone (Malan'Tai's and Kher'ys' Avatar are either destroyed or possessed), but I don't know how many Craftworlds there are. The fact that a run-of-the-mill Keeper of Secrets can kill one by chopping off it's hands and blinding it is indicative of it's power level (yes, the Avatar was not awakened properly with the whole Young King jazz, but it was fuelled by the death and torture of it's host craftworld. Rage is strong.

Midnight

 

[spanner94ezekiel]

I think Avatars are overrated in their actual abilities, but get roflstomped too much in fanboy writing e.g. Calgar, even Fulgrim. An avatar of the God of War is still only an avatar, but that gives no right for those fluff-armoured nancy-boys to walk all over them.

 

[Davidicus 40k]

Shrike would need the element of surprise, plus an epically powerful first strike to even have a chance, IMO. In a prolonged, hand-to-hand fight, Kharn - no contest.

Edit: spanner, I kind of agree with you - perhaps it symbolizes the decline of the Eldar as a whole, but Avatars don't seem to always live up to the power of their description.