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Ok so i agree in part with Jeridian and anathema to a point. But i still feel that the DA book promotes a bit more character. Now there is no point moanind about whether or not combat squads are a good thing or a bad thing. Thats how marine armies are supposed to work. One of my mates is livid that DA's got that rule coz he has Ultra baw bags and he has to use up 4 slots to do a similar thing (which he does) and he's done this for years and has got the tactics pretty good.

DA's also have other trick's. Ok so its expencive but nobody appears to have mentioned that a DA vet squad (that don't have to use the combat squard rule) can have up to 4 hidden powerfists! Drop pod them in and rip apart half somebodies army!

I think it will just take time to see what comes of them. Perhaps they are not the hardest army, but as i've said before. If GW made them the new IW's then everybody would be up in arms, but GW has toned them down a bit so everybody is up in arms! You can please everybody all of the time! (unless your name is jenna jameison) lol

MarzM :mrgreen:
 

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Ok so i agree in part with Jeridian and anathema to a point. But i still feel that the DA book promotes a bit more character. Now there is no point moanind about whether or not combat squads are a good thing or a bad thing. Thats how marine armies are supposed to work. One of my mates is livid that DA's got that rule coz he has Ultra baw bags and he has to use up 4 slots to do a similar thing (which he does) and he's done this for years and has got the tactics pretty good.
If he admires the Codex Astartes set-up as much as it seems, he should use the DA Codex. Seriously, aside from the Deathwing (which can represent a 1st Vet Company) and the Ravenwing (which can represent a 7th Battle Co) all the changes in the DA Codex are Ultramarines Codex Astartes through and through.

It just happens that the DA where the next on the Codex list when they decided to bring it back.

DA's also have other trick's. Ok so its expencive but nobody appears to have mentioned that a DA vet squad (that don't have to use the combat squard rule) can have up to 4 hidden powerfists! Drop pod them in and rip apart half somebodies army!
Or watch as that unit fires a few pistol shots on landing. Then the entire enemy army moves just out of 12" and/or kills said 8 Marines.
I think a more nasty combo is plasmaguns, 3xcombi-plasma, 1xfist.

4-rapid fire plasma's on landing (attributed to Fallen Angel).

I think it will just take time to see what comes of them. Perhaps they are not the hardest army, but as i've said before. If GW made them the new IW's then everybody would be up in arms, but GW has toned them down a bit so everybody is up in arms! You can please everybody all of the time! (unless your name is jenna jameison) lol
The level I'd like seen attained for armies is that of Eldar, Tau and balanced Marines.
So some lists like IW's and BA will have to be weakened, whilst many other lists like Orks, Sisters, IG will have to be boosted.

The DA Codex is an anomaly because there isn't an Eldar Codex and a 'Eldar variant worse than Eldar'.
Theres isn't an IG Codex and a 'IG variant worse than IG'.

They will always be compared to SM's, as do BA (but in the opposite extreme)- and they come up short in all the areas that matter.
 

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But, if people are comparing it to the SM Codex and it doesn't measure up, then those people can play the SM Codex. The Dark Angels offer a different play method with a Marine army. This is what actually got me interested.
 

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But, if people are comparing it to the SM Codex and it doesn't measure up, then those people can play the SM Codex. The Dark Angels offer a different play method with a Marine army. This is what actually got me interested.
Agreed that there is more to a Codex than it's level of competitiveness. The DA style is very appealing to me because it follows the Codex Astartes as rigidly as 90% of SM Chapters are supposed to.

But competitiveness is important, especially since tournaments now play a huge role in 40k wargaming.

And from a purely competitive standpoint- DA are far weaker than SM's, that some people claim they are equal or even more powerful is woefully naive- or just plain ignorant when certain people haven't even read the DA Codex.

The competitiveness of the army will greatly affect a lot of people's decision to collect them- this in turn may affect GW sales negatively.
 

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I dunno, been spending a bit of time with the new DA codex and it doesn't strike me as all that bad. Time will tell but I think there is some excellent potential here.
 

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I bought the DA Codex and now building a DA army. I haven't built a Marine army since 1st edition. Then again, I'm not soley a tourney player either (hell, I've not won an Overall in nearly 2 years...)
 

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I played my DA against Tau this saturday. And I got whipped!

Three things come to mind.

1. Big problem getting Las cannons in to the list without dedicating presicus points you need to spend on marines.

2. Terminators and the Deathwing assault rocks. But they are far too few and vourneble if you just buy 5 plus HQ. You need two units to make a big difference.
Also theier biggest advantage is the "mind game", your opponenet will most likely set up and try to defende against the coming strike.

3. Bikes aren't as though as you might think. In a Tau army most weapon are S5 or more and many weapon have a AP of 3 of better.
Lost my whole bike squad against the ugly Stingwings (sidenote: Why did Tau get another jumppack troop with a S5 AP3 weapon? It just isn't fair. Just as good as Assault marines and cheeper.)
So maybe the Termies just have to take a chance, when teleporting in...

So if I just played a bit smarter (dont sacrifice the bikes on opponents turn one), had a bit more luck in some of the shooting and not as much bad luck on some of my saves. I would have won.
 

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I found some help with the losing 1st turn. Dark Angels can ally now, so a cheapo Inquisitor (Elite slot) with the Emperor's Tarot can help get you the first turn. Not a guarantee, but some added help.
 

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"3. Bikes aren't as though as you might think. In a Tau army most weapon are S5 or more and many weapon have a AP of 3 of better.
Lost my whole bike squad against the ugly Stingwings (sidenote: Why did Tau get another jumppack troop with a S5 AP3 weapon? It just isn't fair. Just as good as Assault marines and cheeper.) "

You do realise that these are vespid.... :shock: Vespid, suck really hard. BS3, T3, 5+s 12" range vespid.

Although bikes are maybe one of the very, very few things they are good against. But, still, Vespid..........
 

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Dude, Vespid suck.
Those Vespid must have gotten lucky, or the player was using irregular dice.


:lol:
:roll:
:twisted:

As far as the DA go, I like what they did with them. They look cool, and they are more fluffy (albeit some folks say they are noodled). I dunno. My two bits says It's cool and balanced.
 

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I wonder if vespid will be used more once the other SM chapters follow suit?

Locally, I don't think i've even seen a vespid on the Table yet.

Stomp, If you were facing a DA force, would you consider Vespid? or is it still a case of leaving them alone in favour of you normal tau?
 

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Hey, Vespids don't suck compared to Tau or Kroot.
Same BS and a S5 AP3 weapon.
They have I5 so they hit before SM and at same rate as Eldar.

The cost is less than an Assault marine, so what does the "suckiness" compose of?

They are s big problem for any marine player as a hit equals a dead marine, most of the time. For example will they most of the time kill all marines in a 5-men squad.
10 shoots = 5 hits =3- 4 wounds and the same amount of dead marines.
Assault 20 attacks = 10 hits = 3-4 wounds = 1 wound
This gives one or none marine to strike back.

But they will die horribly to bolter fire so they are best to sneak up and assault.
 

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"Stomp, If you were facing a DA force, would you consider Vespid? or is it still a case of leaving them alone in favour of you normal tau?"

Hell no! Bikes die just fine to burst cannons, pulse rifles, plasma rifles and missile pods. The main difference is those suits/ FWs will still be alive the following turn to go hurt something else.

Vespids do suck. I'd much rather have the equivelant points worth of Kroot, as they always perform, not just once in a blue moon, or against someone who doesn't know what they're doing against Tau.
 

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But DA bikes have the potential to charge on the first turn, That is something that is usually reserved for Chaos, and is something that Tau can find Difficult to deal with.
 

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Seems to me that the only drawback to the army as a whole are the squad sizes, either 5 or 10.... and if you notice a termie squad is only 5 guys, no bigger. Lots of cool ways to configure the army, buttloads of special characters (is there another chapter with more?), they almost seem like uber marines. Im not gonna play em tho.
 

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Well I also played a game recently, and I have to say I was impressed with the list and the codex, 1500pts and I got 5 lascannons in there, so I don't see whay people moan about how they can't have many (unless you mean cheesey lists with about 50+ in them hehe), a few things I noticed:

1: Librarians are Hard as nails, Hellfire was tremendous, his Daemonhunters were quite afraid of it (especially when it was a STR7 AP3 shot that killed most of his stormtroopers) his force weapon also managed to break a few models out in a sweat.

2: a 5 man devvie squad with a couple of lascannons is actually rather more effective than I thought, managed to tie an Assassin in combat for about 3 turns, meaning I had plenty of time to deal with other threats

3: Terminators were not that good, but it was mainly due to poor dice rolls (first time assault cannon fires 3 1's and a 6, second time 3 2's and a 4, not good)

4: 10 man tactical squads were a godsend, they took everything that was thrown at them and dished it out in equal measure, bolt pistols were a very nice little addition, and I used them more than I thought I would

5: Mortis dreads are nasty, very effective, better than those stupid Las/missile combos, and in combat it killed 3 terminators on its own hehe

BUT he had a Grey Knight Grand Master, and we all know what there like hehe, they do not die, but I was happy, all these people who say the new dex is no good are idiots really.
 

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Stella Cadente said:
5: Mortis dreads are nasty, very effective, better than those stupid Las/missile combos, and in combat it killed 3 terminators on its own hehe
But isn't the Mortis dread an FW addition? even daemonhunter =I= can be good with FW stuff added.

What is the list like when used on its own?
 

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jigplums said:
But DA bikes have the potential to charge on the first turn, That is something that is usually reserved for Chaos, and is something that Tau can find Difficult to deal with.
It's really not you know. I've been stopping first turn charging chaos lords etc for some time now. Skimmers don't fear combat and auxillery troops are there to take care of these things.

Really the only thing they should be able to charge are Kroot in cover. If a 3man bike squad charges 10 Kroot in cover they are dead. The Kroot swing first/ at the same time with 20 WS4 S4 attacks. If a 6 man squad charges Kroot in cover they'll lose 2-3 bikes, break the Kroot because they are only T3 with no sv and Ld 7, leaving them sat out in front of the entire Tau army ready to suck down Plasma/ pulse fire.

70pts for however much the bikes cost. Not a good return of points really. As a Tau player i'd actually fear the player who shows patience, uses cover well to sneak up and arranges his army to all strike at the same/ a similar time. Tau don't like multiple fast moving threats but being given the fastest unit they have on a plate nice and early is ideal.
 

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BUT he had a Grey Knight Grand Master, and we all know what there like hehe, they do not die, but I was happy, all these people who say the new dex is no good are idiots really.
To be fair daemonhunters aren't exactly the stiffest opposition you're likely to face, so I wouldn't consider your win as definitive proof. Have you used them vs. tougher armies yet? I'm still not hearing many bat-reps so far, so I'm interested to know how they do against the full spectrum of lists.

As regards the bikes vs. Tau, my first thought was also "Kroot screen!", closely followed by "skimmer wall". Bunched up kroot with a decent distance between them and the suits will cause problems to DA bikers.

Has anyone tried the flamer Whirlwinds yet? They look fantastic against anything not in power armour. Kroot, Pathfinders, Guard etc. will all die horrible flaming deaths vs. them. I'd be rather worried if I saw one or two of them set up.
 

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anathema said:
Has anyone tried the flamer Whirlwinds yet? They look fantastic against anything not in power armour. Kroot, Pathfinders, Guard etc. will all die horrible flaming deaths vs. them. I'd be rather worried if I saw one or two of them set up.
Its a nice anti ork tank as well now. completely ignores the Mek's shield.
 
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