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The main isue seems to be that certain people, notably the particularly loud section of the gaming population, feel insulted that a new codex requires them, in an atrocious crime against gamers everywhere, to actually change the force composition they've carefully min-maxed via the Internet. All but a few of the "DA are useless now!!!!!!" posts boil down to this, inevitably wrapped in a slightly whiney complaint about Combat Squads. There's been next to no proper discussion over what's better and what's worse that hasn't been tainted by this egotism, so there hasn't been an informed consensus on precisely what happened to the power level of Dark Angels.
Thats a pretty high horse you're on, sure you can breath up there?

Its funny, but most of the posts I've seen decrying the new DA are based on the increased cost vs. Vanilla marines, the next-to-useless mandatory upgrades and wargear (is a 5-man lascannon squad likely to need frag and krak and a bolt pistol?) and the restrictions in choice that have been made.
From what I've heard it pretty much pushes you in the direction of going Ravenwing/Deathwing to the exclusion of a lot of the rest if you want to make it competitive. If you like the old style of DA, you're at a disadvantage compared to normal marines purely on paying points for stuff you don't want or not getting anywhere near the advantages that codex marines can take.
I'm sure some competitive builds are in there and there are hidden depths, but the major complaints seem to be that instead of making them marines plus more options and styles, they made them Raven/Deathwing minus decent marines.
I see what they tries to do, in making the DA have a different style, but there's no need to get rid of the option to use them as normal marines. Hell, the lack of access to traits would have been enough to make them worse in options but still feasible as good line troops.
 

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Since I don't actually have a DA codex, I haven't had the time to ake a long look at it,
you might have actually known that what I said was that I do not own it, not that I have not read it in great detail. I have not at down with it and a calculator for a few hours, but that never stopped me from making powerful lists before.
So you haven't had time to take a long look at it, but you have read it in great detail despite not actually having sat down and tried to write a good list with it. :roll:
This obviously makes you valid to criticise the arguments of others who have actually done this, despite you not having given any detailed concrete arguments to support your position.

So regardless of the self contradiction, your entire argument that DA are peachy is based on reading others arguments, making wild assumptions about their personalities and wilfully ignoring the detailed arguments that have been put across, such as points and style comparisons in order to attack these mythical DA powergamers.

How about you write a post that actually details tactics, unit comparison/uses and overall army building tips rather than just posting "Hurr! Powergamers can't figure it out, (but, er, neither can I yet as I haven't detailed why its so good) thats why its great!" Then you might actually look like you have a tenable position to argue from.
 

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It certainly won't. There will always be people whose need to win is so overwhelming that no sacrifice is too little. They're just getting cranky now because they have to change tactics.
The main isue seems to be that certain people, notably the particularly loud section of the gaming population, feel insulted that a new codex requires them, in an atrocious crime against gamers everywhere, to actually change the force composition they've carefully min-maxed via the Internet.
These people probably haven't even read the fucking codex in some cases, convinced as they are that it is worthless,
So, thats what you've argued. Mostly trolling against anyone who has a different opinion than you. Nothing about las/plas being mentioned, just unsupported assumptions, personal attacks and, wait, nothing of substance to back up your claims other than "I say it is, so it is."

I don't give a flying fuck what you think about the codex, so long as your own opinion is based on something other than ZOMFG NO FUCKING SIXPLAZLAZ MY INTERNET TACTICS ARE RUINED GW HAS RUIONED THE ENTIRE FUCKING GAME THERE'S OBVIOUSLY NO OTHER UNITS IN THE ENTIRE FUCKING CODEX AND THERE'S OBVIOUSLY NO WAY TO USE THE NEW RULES TO MAKE A UNIT THAT IS PLAYABLE I'M GOING TO FUCKING KILL MYSELF.

If i had said a single fucking thing about any argument other than the above, you may just have a minute shard of a point.
OK, show me a couple of arguments listed on this forum that bang on about 6-man las/plas as the be all and end all and thats why DA are rubbish and you might actually have a shard of a point. Can you?

Just a disclaimer: I don't actually care about DA, but I am bothered by mindless trolling, hence my posts in this thread.
 

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Oh and Jig, Dreads aren't so much high priority as they are easy to kill and you might as well get it over with right away so you can move on to more important things. IMHO anyway
Agreed. They're generally something to go for when the pred's can't see you and the speeders have been shaken for a turn as you've got a damn good chance of killing it with most AT weapons. Otherwise pretty much ignore it. Vens are harder mind.
 

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BUT he had a Grey Knight Grand Master, and we all know what there like hehe, they do not die, but I was happy, all these people who say the new dex is no good are idiots really.
To be fair daemonhunters aren't exactly the stiffest opposition you're likely to face, so I wouldn't consider your win as definitive proof. Have you used them vs. tougher armies yet? I'm still not hearing many bat-reps so far, so I'm interested to know how they do against the full spectrum of lists.

As regards the bikes vs. Tau, my first thought was also "Kroot screen!", closely followed by "skimmer wall". Bunched up kroot with a decent distance between them and the suits will cause problems to DA bikers.

Has anyone tried the flamer Whirlwinds yet? They look fantastic against anything not in power armour. Kroot, Pathfinders, Guard etc. will all die horrible flaming deaths vs. them. I'd be rather worried if I saw one or two of them set up.
 

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Umm I said I lost??
Umm, you didn't say either way? I only assumed you won because you were talking up the DA units so much.

I'm retaining an open mind until I see a few winning battle reports from DA armies and how they did it. Once I've seen the imaginative uses and killer combos that players come up then I'll be prepared to accept that they're not as bad as people say. However hearing some more of their restrictions from a marine player at the weekend then kudos is indeed due to those who make a winning army from them.
 
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