Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner
1 - 6 of 6 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
318 Posts
Since I don't actually have a DA codex
Let me get this straight, we who have seen and read the DA Codex, have tried to make decent lists out of it....we're not allowed to come to the conclusion that they have been significantly nerfed (unless you trade in your Tacticals for Bikes £££$$$) in comparison to SM's.

Yet you who haven't even seen it can jump on the high horse and proclaim us all whingers and power gamers for speaking out.


...rich.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
318 Posts
Have to disagree about Dreadnoughts being undercosted- they're awful. Too slow, too lightly armoured, too big a priority target to survive.

For even more cost....I'll pass.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
318 Posts
For me, I looked at the codex as a player of 4th edition. I've found what wins me games is being more mobile than my opponent. I don't want stationary guns. I want as much move and fire as possible. This entitles me to work out LOS to not get shot back at while being able to secure objectives.
Agreed absolutely. Mobility and firepower are the buzz words of 4th Ed- if you have one and not the other your in for trouble.

Wandering off on a side tangent here but many of us that disliked the DA Codex never mentioned 6xman las/plas (this was brought by pro-DA Codex players as a strawman argument for them to argue against).

Frankly it is just as easy to create a highly mobile firepower SM army- cheaper Tornados, cheaper Predators, cheaper plasmaguns, Fury, Terminator Command Squads, cheaper drop pods, cheaper Fists, etc.

The only way to make the DA Codex worth taking over SM's is to deliberately choose not to take much plasma, or assault cannons, or fists, or Tornados, or lascannons, etc.

Which leaves- cheap transports, autocannon Predators.

Like this for example:

I can field very cheap Predators, lots of meltas/multi meltas/melta bombs. I can also find ways to get side shots with Plasma all the while having 14 scoring units.
From a purely competitive view your telling me it's a good thing that you have to navigate into the side arc of vehicles with lower strength weapons rather than hit the front with lascannons.
(From a gaming view it may be a good thing as it makes it more challenging for you, but that's not the tournament/balance stance).

Then, thanks to the no ally type rule not being present, I can take a cheapo Inquisitor with Emperor's Tarot to help increase my chances of getting first turn. This would allow me to get the 1st turn shooting/assault on troops, and more importantly vehicles who haven't moved yet (Mech players worst nightmares).
This is true, the Scouting Bikers is one of the DA's few new tricks. Coupled with 1st Turn Termies it may be useful- but if one tiny thing doesn't go your way (terrain, deployment, first turn, etc) your screwed. And it is a one-trick pony- you either win turn 1 or you don't.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
318 Posts
My DA list has two units of:

3xBikes- 2xMeltas. 1xAttack Bike- Multi-melta.

GW has gone out of their way to dick the usual SM suspects (6xman las/plas, Tornados, assault cannons in general).

So rather than try to mimic a SM list (by trying to cram Tornados in, 10xman las/plas) and failing miserably we might as well try something else.

The sad truth is though, that multi-meltas, autocannons, bikes, Rhinos etc aren't taken in SM armies for a good reason, and this still applies (though less) to DA.


Basically I don't want and never said DA should be IW's equivalent.
But they should at least be SM equivalent- they are not.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
318 Posts
Ok so i agree in part with Jeridian and anathema to a point. But i still feel that the DA book promotes a bit more character. Now there is no point moanind about whether or not combat squads are a good thing or a bad thing. Thats how marine armies are supposed to work. One of my mates is livid that DA's got that rule coz he has Ultra baw bags and he has to use up 4 slots to do a similar thing (which he does) and he's done this for years and has got the tactics pretty good.
If he admires the Codex Astartes set-up as much as it seems, he should use the DA Codex. Seriously, aside from the Deathwing (which can represent a 1st Vet Company) and the Ravenwing (which can represent a 7th Battle Co) all the changes in the DA Codex are Ultramarines Codex Astartes through and through.

It just happens that the DA where the next on the Codex list when they decided to bring it back.

DA's also have other trick's. Ok so its expencive but nobody appears to have mentioned that a DA vet squad (that don't have to use the combat squard rule) can have up to 4 hidden powerfists! Drop pod them in and rip apart half somebodies army!
Or watch as that unit fires a few pistol shots on landing. Then the entire enemy army moves just out of 12" and/or kills said 8 Marines.
I think a more nasty combo is plasmaguns, 3xcombi-plasma, 1xfist.

4-rapid fire plasma's on landing (attributed to Fallen Angel).

I think it will just take time to see what comes of them. Perhaps they are not the hardest army, but as i've said before. If GW made them the new IW's then everybody would be up in arms, but GW has toned them down a bit so everybody is up in arms! You can please everybody all of the time! (unless your name is jenna jameison) lol
The level I'd like seen attained for armies is that of Eldar, Tau and balanced Marines.
So some lists like IW's and BA will have to be weakened, whilst many other lists like Orks, Sisters, IG will have to be boosted.

The DA Codex is an anomaly because there isn't an Eldar Codex and a 'Eldar variant worse than Eldar'.
Theres isn't an IG Codex and a 'IG variant worse than IG'.

They will always be compared to SM's, as do BA (but in the opposite extreme)- and they come up short in all the areas that matter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
318 Posts
But, if people are comparing it to the SM Codex and it doesn't measure up, then those people can play the SM Codex. The Dark Angels offer a different play method with a Marine army. This is what actually got me interested.
Agreed that there is more to a Codex than it's level of competitiveness. The DA style is very appealing to me because it follows the Codex Astartes as rigidly as 90% of SM Chapters are supposed to.

But competitiveness is important, especially since tournaments now play a huge role in 40k wargaming.

And from a purely competitive standpoint- DA are far weaker than SM's, that some people claim they are equal or even more powerful is woefully naive- or just plain ignorant when certain people haven't even read the DA Codex.

The competitiveness of the army will greatly affect a lot of people's decision to collect them- this in turn may affect GW sales negatively.
 
1 - 6 of 6 Posts
Top