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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So for funzies I'm running an all Jump Pack Blood Angel army at the moment. I know this is 5th aka Mech Edition, but I'm just not a fan. I think it lends to the fact I play Tau enemies mostly and they just look at my Rhinos and they go poof. Then I have to move 6" at a time as his 30" guns open up on me. I just like the idea more of JPs and I feel with the right deployment/movement they can be competitive.

So far in my playing I'm finding DS'ing with the Decent of Angels rules is actually useful to drop meltas and pop armor. However, I always find them getting shot up by something else next turn. I also notice that when I DS and the squad I really need to come in to smash face fails his two reserve rolls and I have to compensate, usually resulting in me splitting up my forces and becoming less effective. So my question is, should I stick to DS and just learn to play better, or is starting them on the board, in cover/behind buildings, a better idea? I feel with the 18" threat range, they can make it across the board into assault turn 2/3 depending on enemy movement. Of course these guys would be hugging the edges of terrain to get cover saves, but not jump into it and a Libby for his 5+ shield and I'd have priests for FNP help as well. Which do you guys think? Or, should I mech up or gtfo?
 

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Keep it all as a DS army, just because the unit you needed on dosn't show, it dosn't mean you should end up slpitting your force. You should always keep it together and use the units that do come n to support each other even if it's not what was inteneded for them, it will take you a while before you perfect this skill and dont give up just keep tring out differant veriasions of oyour army until you find one that is suited to all purpose DS, also consider half on the table, the other half in reserve ready for DS, this will cause more confusion in your opponant and he will more than likley make mistakes. This will also cause a distraction and allow your DS units more time to survive and get their intended job done.

Hope that shed some light on things: happy gaming
 

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Descent of Angels has really helped Blood Angels do an all Jump Pack army, the rerolling reserves is very strong. The key to it is redundancy as with everything. If you have a unit that is key to your army then it's probably good enough to have 2 of them or more. For example you could make a 1500pt list like this

HQ
Reclusiarch
- Jump Pack

Elite
3 x Sanguinary Priest
- Power Weapon x 2
- Jump Pack x 3

1x Saniganry Guard
- Chapter Banner
- Power Fist
- Infernus Pistol

Troops

10x Assault Marines
- Meltagun x2
- Powerfist

10x Assault Marines
- Meltagun x2
- Powerfist

10x Assault Marines
- Meltagun x2
- Powerfist

5x Assault Marines
- Meltagun
- Powerfist

Now this is just an example, as you can see I hate tanks and want them all to die. This list will mean I will always get some kind of hot melta action. I dont have a single drop unit which i'm relying on to kill tanks. You diversify this, take some flamers, but just don't take 1 flamer always take at least 2.

Aramoro
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I'm also a fan of redundancy of efficient units instead of going balls to the wall with uber HQs and the like. Tho, I do miss having Invul saves... haha. My current 1000pt JP list is:

Libby with JP
Priest with JP
10-man ASM (2x Meltas; Powerfist)
10-man ASM (2x Meltas; Powerfist)
5-man ASM (Flamer; Power Weapon)
5-man Honor Guard (embedded Priest; Melta; L. Claw and Storm Shield)

So that's 32 marines in 1000pts, two priest bubbles, 5-meltas and 2 PFs. As I said, it has a lack of invuls or 2+ armor, but the FNP should help out, and the priest has the Lance for more anti-armor and the Shield for cover (I could be talked out of taking the shield for something like S10 or Preferred Enemy tho).

I did have a list with combat squadded VV so I had two units that could descend and assault, but only had the 1 priest and could be singled out, plus those VV are expensive at 1000pts and I had way less "troop" bodies on the board. I feel this list *can* be powerful, but I keep losing focus and only have a couple make the jump in when needed and then I mess up and send a single unit on a seek and destroy to take out something juicy and then it gets shot up. If I start them on the board maybe I'll be able to focus fire more? Or I can pick like a place on the board in the enemy DZ as my rally point and try to land everything there and then move out. That would keep them on their toes instead of starting somewhere they know they can line up shots from turn 1. Any other suggestions guys?
 

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If you're going to Drop is (which I prefer) Always drop in around the same place, try to single out a part of your opponents army and destroy it, then move on from there. Same as if you start on the table, use your superior speed to single out and take down enemy units. A sensible opponent will castle up to give himself maximum defence. Just try not to be tempted to send units off by themselves without support as they'll get singled out and destroyed before they can be truely effective. There's no one size fits all strategy obviously it depends whats on the table and how your opponent is playing it.

Aramoro
 

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BA Jumper armies are quite a competitive army, tanks aren't a competititve requirement but being able to neutralise and keep up with them is. A jumper army w/o VV though has trouble as it's really easy to use deep strike defenses and force the Jumpers away. Whilst they are expensive, they do the job of clearing bubble-wrap and tying up units on the drop which you simply need for this list to be competitive.

Otherwise drop in a localised area to maximise your bubbles and concentrate your firepower.
 

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At 1000 points, heres what I would do:

HQ:
Librarian w JP: Unleash Rage and Shield of Sanguinius

Elite:
Sang Priest w JP and PW

Troop:
2x 10-up Assault Squad w 2 Meltas

Fast Attack:
10-up VV: 7 have Meltabombs (wanted 6 but had 5 points left over)

The plan being to combat squad the VV's and use them as primarily anti tanking.
The assault squads drop in around either: Heavy Infantry or more vehicles, depending on the opponents army. Hopefully sheild of sanguinius will be enough to keep them alive through the next turn, also, those VV's will take a whole lot of fire. Ideally, Id stick a storm shield on a couple of those VV's but I didnt have those points.

The main problem I see with this army is that there may, in fact, be too much anti vehicle.
 

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Why would you need to deep strike anyway? Deploy and you suddenly don't need those land raider costing vanguard veterans ;)
 

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Why would you need to deep strike anyway? Deploy and you suddenly don't need those land raider costing vanguard veterans ;)
Because ideally those LR costed VV will drop in and multi assault at least 2 enemy heavy support choices the turn they arrive. Nothing else in the game can do that. :)
 

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Angel Sanguine
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Except for when, oh, you play an opponent with brains who will just use weak units, or moving vehicles to block you from doing so. Also, since you are deep striking everything, he can use a turn to drive 12'' with all of his vehicles, so you hit them on 6es.
It really isn't hard to punish vanguard veterans. And yes, I have a jumper army myself, I have tried them ;)
 

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I play a large jump pack army and I never, ever DS. I use sanguinary priests and cover to get across the field reliably and with few casualties. Deep striking even with descent of angels isn't a sure thing and you are looking at no assaults until turn 3 at the earliest (unless you use vanguard but they do not have DoA). I can see that I'm likely in the minority when it comes to not using deep strike but that's my 2 cents. What I can say for certain is that an all jump army without DS can be very competitive.
 

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Except for when, oh, you play an opponent with brains who will just use weak units
I don't know anyone who does this as it's a waste of points.
...or moving vehicles to block you from doing so.
How?
...Also, since you are deep striking everything, he can use a turn to drive 12'' with all of his vehicles, so you hit them on 6es.
If they're driving 12" they aren't firing much are they? ;)


I play a large jump pack army and I never, ever DS. I use sanguinary priests and cover to get across the field reliably and with few casualties. Deep striking even with descent of angels isn't a sure thing and you are looking at no assaults until turn 3 at the earliest (unless you use vanguard but they do not have DoA). I can see that I'm likely in the minority when it comes to not using deep strike but that's my 2 cents. What I can say for certain is that an all jump army without DS can be very competitive.
Umm...VV have DOA once you put a jump pack on them. Read the rules for DOA. It states any BA model equipped with a Jump Pack gets the DOA. :)
 

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Angel Sanguine
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I don't know anyone who does this as it's a waste of points.

Oh, those guardsmen are a real waste of points aren't they? Those scouts that protected the long fangs, real waste, and those kroots, so useless waste of points right?!

How?

If there are vehicles and/or units blocking you from deep striking near your priority target, or blocking your charge, then you can't get to them.


If they're driving 12" they aren't firing much are they? ;)

They aren't shooting much as there is nothing at the table for them to shoot at... Please take a moment to think about what I am saying before jumping to conclusions :/
Any other questions?
 

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Originally Posted by pathwinder14
I don't know anyone who does this as it's a waste of points.

Oh, those guardsmen are a real waste of points aren't they? Those scouts that protected the long fangs, real waste, and those kroots, so useless waste of points right?!


If that's the only reason they were purchased, yes it's a waste of points. Any tournament player will tell you that. Points are too precious to waste.


How?

If there are vehicles and/or units blocking you from deep striking near your priority target, or blocking your charge, then you can't get to them.


Good. I can assault the vehicles/units blocking.


If they're driving 12" they aren't firing much are they? ;)

They aren't shooting much as there is nothing at the table for them to shoot at... Please take a moment to think about what I am saying before jumping to conclusions :/


I think you jumped to the conclusion I DOA my entire army. No where in this post did I say I DOA my entire army. In fact I agree with your comment on another thread of mine about how DOA is just a tool, not a requirement.
 

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Angel Sanguine
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1: You can have units with other purposes than blocking, but that are disposable to do so if neccessary. For example, the scout squad costs alot, so it would be a "waste". But then again, they can do wery little vs jumpers, so sacrificing them so the fangs can live, could be a wery good idea.
Also, I am a tournament player. I can tell myself it is a good idea!

2: You hit on 6s. And can be shot the next round, not quite worth it imo.

3: Didn't see that before after my last post ><
Well it does make more sence then. Vehicles that doesn't shoot (rhinos), and fast vehicles (speeder, BA) can still be used for exactly this though. Of course, it is all just theory talk, terrain and your deployment would affect it. In the end one could also just sacrifice one of the heavy support units, or deploy it far away from the rest of the army, buying you time to shoot the veterans if they succeed.

On another note, may I ask why you would choose vanguard veterans in a list where you are deploying? It doesn't really make sence to me.
 

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...On another note, may I ask why you would choose vanguard veterans in a list where you are deploying? It doesn't really make sence to me.
Sure. It is a hammer and anvil sort of play. On turn 1 I deploy my HS choices on my back board edge and reserve everything else. On turn 2 (usually) I DOA my VV and RAS. The RAS open up enemy HS or tranports with melta. Then the VV multi assault any enemy HS choices that are still viable. By this time (turn 2) my opponet is in the middle of the field and has to deccide to go forward after my HS choices or turn around and go after my troops and VV. Either way he has to pay a heavy price.
 

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Angel Sanguine
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Don't you think it would be more effective to use the VV points on more RAS and deploy? It is just so much more safe, and you can assault the turn you get into the enemys lines, instead of hoping that your vanguards lock their scary shooting units.
 

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...instead of hoping that your vanguards lock their scary shooting units.
And that's the same assumption everyone else makes. ;) I don't use them in hopes they lock anything in combat. The VV are really there to give my opponent a hard choice:

"Do I go back and take care of those RAS and VV units at my unguarded rear or do I ignore them and continue towards the enemy?"

That's why I DOA behind my opponent. Ususally my VV and RAS keep the opponent from advancing on me so I cna shoot them apart. If my VV lock or destroy anything that's just a bonus. Think of it like a bully who steps on your foot then hits you. With your foot anchored you can do nothing but fall over. My opponent's often feel the same way.

My VV and RAS anchor the enemy on their side of the board so my Devs and other long range stuff can shoot all they want to.

Hordes is often a problem because my RAS and VV get multi assaulted by one large unit leaving the rest their army to advance on me. It is by no means a perfect strategy but it works pretty well.
 

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Angel Sanguine
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Hmm, I dunno, that wouldn't really work against the armies I play, but if it works for you then have fun :p
 
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