[MidnightSun]

Do they take the Initiative penalty or not? I was certain they did, but I checked it earlier today and now I'm less confident. If you use your Jump ability in the Assault Phase rather than the movement phase, you explicitly benefit from the 'Skyborne' rule (the rule that allows Jump Infantry to move over terrain and other models). As far as I can tell, if you use your Jump move in the assault phase and charge into difficult terrain, you take Dangerous Terrain if you land in terrain but you otherwise ignore the terrain including the Initiative penalty (as you are not charging through terrain, you are charging over it).

If so, then the obvious result is that Wraithknights don't go down to I1 for going through cover, but I'm sure there are other jump units that benefit from this.

 

[Vaz]

SKYBORNE
When using its jump pack (whether moving, charging or Falling Back, as we’ll discuss in a moment) a model can move over all other models and all terrain freely. However, if the model begins or ends its move in difficult terrain, it must take a Dangerous Terrain test.

Jump models cannot end their move on top of other models and can only end their move on top of impassable terrain if it is actually possible to place the models on top of it. If they do this, however, they treat the impassable terrain as dangerous terrain.

Where does it say you ignore Initiative penalty?

 

[MidnightSun]

The model doesn't go through the difficult terrain, which is what causes the initiative penalty, because it moves over all terrain freely. It just appears in base to base contact all of a sudden, which is silly when I say it but does make sense from a fluff perspective (yes, yes, rules =/= fluff).

 

[ntaw]

I see your point @MidnightSun. The rule states that you 'pass freely over all terrain' so long as you're using your Jump Pack and includes charging in the list of things this applies to. I don't think it's right, but maybe @Vaz can explain more as to why if you're freely moving over something negative modifiers still apply?

 

[Fallen]

If your charging a unit that is in terrain you would end up in the terrain - so negative results of charging into terrain. However it seems that you do not have any negative on the charge modifier.

----

Also charging into terrain, if you lack grenades (I assume that this works the same still) you should still suffer the I penalty, as far as I can tell...

 

[MidnightSun]

I think that's sensible, but you don't go through the terrain - you just kinda end up standing on it, much like Jump Infantry in the movement phase.

I didn't know that you took Dangerous Terrain if you used your Jump Packs to charge a unit in whatever area terrain is called now though, that's neat.

 

[mayegelt]

Interesting point being made here. Not 100% sure what the rules say so won't do a comment to swimg it either way.
I guess the problem is what type of dangerous terrain it is. To go back to a classic example of what could be dangerous, you could have a long spiked barricade or minefield , but if you had the jump packs just hover over and attack down with needing to land it might have no effect. But if the defending unit was set up in something like a field of longspikes (basically pikes that are buried in the ground with a small amount of room between for defenders but much taller than those hiding in there) then the jump packs would have to actively negotiate there way in to attack, thus losing a bit of time.

 

[alt-f4]

Maybe I'm wrong, but this is the way I understand the rules :

- We talk here about difficult terrain, not dangerous one (jump infantry may land upon difficult terrain when charging, but takes then a dangerous terrain test that does not change the nature of the terrain : it remains a difficult one).

- Charging through difficult terrain lowers the models to I1 for the fight (except for the models which have grenades). Jumping above it does not.

- If the jumping models land upon difficult terrain, they are affected by it (lowered to I1 for the fight, except for the models which have grenades). Moreover, each model must pass a dangerous terrain test (even if the terrain is just a difficult one).

- "Under cover" is a difficult terrain. So, if the unit charges its target through its cover (or lands upon it), i.e. if the straight line of any model passes through the cover, the whole unit is subject to difficult terrain.

- Charging through dangerous terrain is the same, except that even models which don't jump must pass a dangerous terrain test.

 

[ntaw]

I think this seals it. Models charging through terrain fight at I1 despite any modifiers even if the charging unit is not slowed by Difficult Terrain (pg.47 BRB). Despite our Jump troops not being slowed by Terrain they do indeed fight at I1. Still pretty cool if you ask me, though with the re-roll for using your packs in the Assault phase you were probably making it in before ignoring the -2" charge modifier.

EDIT: major con obviously being you can lose models to gain HoW and a better charge range, which can be crappy if your dice are jerks.

 

[MidnightSun]

Thanks for the input Heretics k: