Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner

1 - 20 of 55 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,189 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
[rant]

So I played a duel tournament yesterday which was basically two ladders that you play one army each in. So far its the quarter finals and I have my wolves in one and my nids in the other. This match was with my wolves vs some douche who had a daemon prince, abbadon and a bloodthirster in one fucking army and from this match comes my biggest problem and downfall. Being wolves you can't go without the runepriest's most OP'ed monstrous creature killer JotWW. During the game he starts to systematically wipe out each of my squads with the three previously listed units not even using his vanilla CSM (Which didn't have any upgrades I saw his list he maxed out his bloodthirster and daemon prince) for anything but objective holders and after his bloodthirster took down Bjorn I voiced my humble opinion that "I fucking hate Bloodthirsters" I honestly was just joking, but he looks at me and dead serious says "You're just angry because you suck" no smile. no jk just a glare. So that made me angry but I am usually a very calm sarcastic person and I took out my anger in game on his CSM squads and took most of them out and had two bloodclaw squads holding the objectives sadly that brought the attention of the bloodthirster god then the incedent occured. I get my runepriest in a perfect lineup to use JotWW that touched all three of them and to my great relief he failed all three of their inititave tests which I honestly didn't think was possible I was just desperate as they just wiped out my second bloodclaw unit and was progressing towards my long fangs. However when it comes time for him to remove the models he says "Oh no wait they have eternal warrior you can't instakill them" I called bs for the fact that A. I know that fucking bloodthirster didn't have EW and JotWW ignores EW as the fact if your a god, but you fit in the hole, the planet is still going to eat you. So we called the person hosting the tourny and he says that he knows the bloodthirster doesn't have it and regardlessly it is dead, but he didn't know if the EW blocked JotWW and said that we should play as if it does and that if I lose I can go home and find a way to prove it (he was friends with the guy we were playing) then I could get a rematch when we play the semifinal round (as I just won with my nids so I was still in one ladder) so we continue playing and he only has those models left as my grey hunters just killed off the last squad and was holding one objective so I was winning but then in the last round he goes ape shit and the daemon prince kills my runepriest and then abbadon kills the greyhunters ending the game with him having more kill points then me.

[/rant]

So I have spent the last hour looking through the codex on any hints on whether EW does or doesn't block JotWW so I thought I would bring my problem here as there are people here that have been playing longer then me
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
282 Posts
Well, chill off, things like that happen all the time. And about your question:

You can break open your rulebook, check the EW entry. IIRC the rules text says the model is immune to Instant Death (the rule) and then it mentions some of the conditions that cause ID, such as double strength weapons and psychich weapons.

Does JotWW say that it causes instant death? I don't own the space puppies codex, but it basically comes down to wording. If it causes Instant Death (the rule), then EW protects against it. If it does not, and it says that you must remove the model from the table or that it is killed outright or some other wording, RAW it works, simple as that. Go with both relevant passages to your store owner and show him.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,189 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
thanks man it says that they fall through the crust of the planet without any saves, but it doesn't mention instakill

also I am chill now at the moment of the game I was angry because the guy was being a prick
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,523 Posts
thanks man it says that they fall through the crust of the planet without any saves, but it doesn't mention instakill

also I am chill now at the moment of the game I was angry because the guy was being a prick
I am pretty sure that the rule says that the model is removed from the table. I have lost tyrannofexs and hive guard to them on multiple occasions. So, I read removed from table as bypassing EW as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,523 Posts
Actually, another point, IIRC you can also use JotWW to snipe characters out of formations because the rule, IIRC, removes the model touched by it. It doesn't cause wounds, it just destroys what it hits with no wound allocation.

Not a hundred percent sure, I have only read the rule once or twice as it was busy crushing my pour units.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,314 Posts
EW only prevents you from suffering from Instant Death, Instant Death is a keyword. JoTWW does not invoke that rule at any point so obviously EW has not effect.

As an aside there's no such thing as a Bloodthirster in the CSM army list and no upgrades you can buy a Summoned Greater Daemon.

Aramoro
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,083 Posts
Jaws Does not KILL models, It just sends them about... 30 thousand feet into the ground. it does not effect specific models (tanks, jump units, things that would otherwise be FLOATING and wouldnt fall down a hole, and MC's get a -1 to the roll) it is an INIT test or the model is removed from the game. this can be translated to either it is killed, or it is just removed. as far as I have been able to discern NOTHING prevents Jaws of the world Wolf if the opponent is sucessfully hit with the spell and fails an init test.

so yeah, pardon the language, but he fucked you over and is a poor player as it is. Next time that shit comes up, remember, its NOT an ID, its an initiative Test or be removed test.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,021 Posts
yeah the wording is removed from play, not killed or instant death, so EW does not STOP JotWW, and as Aramoro said, how the fuck did he get a blood thirster in a csm list?? you can only use greater daemons as listed in the csm codex
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
so now what you need to do is get your rematch and stomp his ass into the ground.. and if he starts to whine then just say " your just angry cus you suck"
 

·
WFB Moderator
Joined
·
8,248 Posts
Yeah, he's utterly wrong. I assume by CSM bloodthirster you mean a summoned greater daemon... which certainly doesnt have the EW rule (it does not have the daemon rule as all Codex: Chaos Daemons have).
As for JotWW vs EW it irrelevant- EW protects you from the 'Instant Death' rule, it does not stop you being 1 shotted (so 'instant death' but not 'dying instantly'). Since JotWW just removes the model from play there is nothing that EW can do to protect them. Other things also get round EW- DH force weapons, the Lukas's last laugh and eldar wraithguard... all of them remove models without bothering about the ID rule.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,314 Posts
I kinda presumed he was using a Greater Summoned Daemon and not an actual Bloodthrister so has no EW and is a legal choice with Abbadon and a Daemon Prince.

Aramoro
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,189 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
He was using a bloodthirster model idk if it was actually a bloodthirster I had presumed that it was but it was still decking my army I'm going to see the manager at 1 today thank you for the input
 

·
Grand Lord Munchkin
Joined
·
7,044 Posts
Who ever was running it was a dipshit and your opponent needs a good ass whoopin.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,166 Posts
Bloodthirster probably was a summoned Greater Daemon. I use my Keeper of Secrets for that, cause I don't like buying extra models I don't have to.

pg 74, MRB: "Eternal Warrior: Immune to the Effects of the Instant Death rule"

Pg. 37, SW codex - JOTWW: "If the model fails the test,it is removed from play."

Eternal warriors are not immune from being removed from play. Guy was a dick.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,054 Posts
Next up! An exciting debate about whether you can rules lawyer your way into not having models removed by JotWW count for victory points!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,083 Posts
Next up! An exciting debate about whether you can rules lawyer your way into not having models removed by JotWW count for victory points!
dont start on that shit. I only say they dont count when it comes to Necrons so I can make them not get a WBB XD
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,054 Posts
Better watch out, dude, you wouldn't want them to also not count for phase-out, would you?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,083 Posts
oh I know, but I usually did it via useing it once only to snipe out their commander then destroying them easily afterwords.
 
1 - 20 of 55 Posts
Top