[Words_of_Truth]

In a Space Marine Tactical squad you can give a Space Marine a Heavy Bolter, but he doesn't lose his bolter? I only ask cause i have a squad in a rhino with a heavy bolter that i use to take weakly guarded table quarters and really needs every shot when they disembark, So when i do dismount and rapid fire into a squad can the guy with the heavy bolter still shoot his normal bolter?

 

[thomas2]

I always thought of it as him replacing his bolter. I may be wrong.

 

[Words_of_Truth]

It doesn't say his bolter is replaced or that he loses it, just says he may be armed with a heavy bolter to.

 

[dakari-mane]

You got it.

He keeps the bolter.
:victory:

 

[squadiee]

I always thought it was replace, but codex only says "give marine weapon", not "replace bolter with"

so I guess its alright, but sounds a little dodgey rule wise IMO

 

[torealis]

new codex (DA, BA) say they replace it. it makes sense, but using the SM codex, youre right.

 

[Galahad]

Similarly, your vet sarge can keep his pistol and chainsword, even if you give him a storm bolter and power fist...so he could fire the storm bolter, charge in and get a bonus attack for his pistol and, if you're fighting against someone with low T and weak saves (like IG) he could elect to use the chainsword and strike at I4 rather than overkill with the powerfist.

The rules regarding maximum amount of weapons apply only to how many weapons you can *purchase* from the armoury list. There's nothing restricting how many weapons a model can have on his person, or how many he can be equipped with outside of the armoury list.

 

[FrozenOrb]

Similarly, your vet sarge can keep his pistol and chainsword, even if you give him a storm bolter and power fist...so he could fire the storm bolter, charge in and get a bonus attack for his pistol and, if you're fighting against someone with low T and weak saves (like IG) he could elect to use the chainsword and strike at I4 rather than overkill with the powerfist.

The rules regarding maximum amount of weapons apply only to how many weapons you can *purchase* from the armoury list. There's nothing restricting how many weapons a model can have on his person, or how many he can be equipped with outside of the armoury list.

This sounds to be pushing it. It may not say in the SM codex but I think it's assumed the weapons are replaced.

 

[Hespithe]

Just think of all the effort that guy must be expending just to lug that heavy bolter out of the Rhino while double-tapping his rather large sidearm. While the loophole does exist, it seems wrong in a comically/dense kinda way to take advantage of it.

 

[Galahad]

This sounds to be pushing it. It may not say in the SM codex but I think it's assumed the weapons are replaced.

It may be assumed by players, but it's not assumed by the rules, or even fluff. (There's a character from the Bloodquest comics who often wields a power axe by holding it in his powerfist, so his other hand can be free for a plasma pistol, lol) or even the models. I'm holding in my hands an official, unmodified GW chaplain with his crozius, a powerfist, and a bolt pistol. (Chaplain paid for PF and BP, but never had to replace his CA, so he can use the fist on big guys or switch to the CA when chewing through squads)

This is what scabbards lanyards, rifle slings and holsters are for, after all.

The new codices explicitly replace certain weapons, but even then, it's not uncommon for some morels to have extra weapons. Heck, every CSM now comes with three weapons.

As far as the Heavy Bolter + Boltgun situation goes, remember that SMs are immensely strong and have power armor. The heavy bolter could be shoulder slung as he jumps off the transport with his bolter in hand, or he could be carrying the HB by the carry handle (that's what it's there for) while one-handing the boltgun (Not like we don;t see SM's firing a bolter one-handed in the artwork or fluff)...he wouldn't be very accurate, but that's what the short range rapid fire rules represent. He's spraying down with the bolter as he disembarks, then letting go of the boltgun so he can bring his HB into firing position.

It's not impossible to imagine...just make sure it;s WYSIWYG

 

[FrozenOrb]

You bring up good points Galahad.

 

[Galahad]

Now I really want to model a devastator with his HB in one hand and a boltgun in the other going at it like Arnold in Commando ;-)

Humm...could use the chaos or scout HB with the funky back grip...add a shoulder-strap out of GS to brace it like the old necromunda goliath shotgun arms...

Now if only I ever used heavy bolters on troopers...

 

[Dirge Eterna]

I use em' for tyranids and orks and IG, sometime for Eldar and DE. Got two squads of the new plastic Devs when they came out. One las and one HB

-Dirge

 

[Galahad]

I prefer my heavy bolters mounted. As a blood Angels player we like getting up close, so short to mid-range heavy weapons on troopers are a turn-off ;-)

Plus, you know, we've got the Baal predator and cheap razorbacks and attack bikes ;-)

 

[Bishop120]

You made some good points Galahad.. though I think the ones on the Sgt are pushing it, the guy with the Heavy Bolter is pretty straight on.. GW should have stated replace.. oh well.. Ill use this loop hole till the next Codex

 

[Words_of_Truth]

It may be assumed by players, but it's not assumed by the rules, or even fluff. (There's a character from the Bloodquest comics who often wields a power axe by holding it in his powerfist, so his other hand can be free for a plasma pistol, lol) or even the models. I'm holding in my hands an official, unmodified GW chaplain with his crozius, a powerfist, and a bolt pistol. (Chaplain paid for PF and BP, but never had to replace his CA, so he can use the fist on big guys or switch to the CA when chewing through squads)

This is what scabbards lanyards, rifle slings and holsters are for, after all.

The new codices explicitly replace certain weapons, but even then, it's not uncommon for some morels to have extra weapons. Heck, every CSM now comes with three weapons.

As far as the Heavy Bolter + Boltgun situation goes, remember that SMs are immensely strong and have power armor. The heavy bolter could be shoulder slung as he jumps off the transport with his bolter in hand, or he could be carrying the HB by the carry handle (that's what it's there for) while one-handing the boltgun (Not like we don;t see SM's firing a bolter one-handed in the artwork or fluff)...he wouldn't be very accurate, but that's what the short range rapid fire rules represent. He's spraying down with the bolter as he disembarks, then letting go of the boltgun so he can bring his HB into firing position.

It's not impossible to imagine...just make sure it;s WYSIWYG

Damn that means i need to try model shoulder slings with bolters on all my heavy weapon guys now .

About the sergeant with storm bolter, pistol and chainsword, you can't switch weapons when you charge into combat so he would still be using his stormbolter and chain sword.

I have two squads in my 1500 with heavy bolter and flamer and they are basicly used to take down those mob like armies such as orcs, tyranids and being able to use a bolter instead of the heavy bolter really makes a difference.

Imagine the look on your opponents face when hes nearing your line of fire and will be able to get into assault in the next turn, he thinks you are going to fire the heavy bolter and 9 other shots, when infact you step out 6", rapid fire 18-20 shots and mow the unit down. muahaha

 

[Hespithe]

Still WoT, the modeling opportunities can't be passed up! Give it a go and let us know how it works out (pics)!

 

[Galahad]

I don't recall any rules that say the weapon you fire in the shooting phase has to be the same weapon you use in the assault phase. I just scanned through the Assault chapter and saw no mention of it. I know you can't switch weapons in the middle of the assault phase (i.e.; no using your chainsword for 2 attacks then the powerfist for your last two), so you have to use the same weapon for the duration of the assault phase, but nothing to my knowledge bars someone from switching weapons in-between phases.

Think of it like an action movie, the hero charges in, stormbolter blaring, then he lets it go, letting it hang from the shoulder sling as he cross-draws his sword and pistol, throwing himself into the fray. (Hey, the Commander storm bolter does come with a strap...)

Either way, regardless of whether he can switch weapons for assault, the sarge can still arm himself with two weapons from the armoury without giving up any of his starting guns. If you like, let him have a bolter and then buy a pistol and PF from the armoury, so if he's stationary or out of charge range he can fire the bolter, but has the option to switch to his close quarters weapon when in charge range.

At no point do you have to discard your starting weapons after buying your armoury choices. So sayeth the new GW powerfist chappy ;-)

 

[Words_of_Truth]

Oh well i guess this is my GW clouding the rules then, i was always taught that if you fire a two hander weapon you have to use it in the assault phase, otherwise whats the point of true grit.

 

[Elchimpster]

Makes sense Galahad. I can't help but feel a bit smarmy in having a model have all these weapons.