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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Greetings fellow Heretics, as you probably saw from the title I have a really big question that I need answered. So here is my delema and experience.

I first got into this game back in 5th Ed. with Vanilla Marines. I didn't win a single game with them but continued playing every weekend (I was in Albuquerque, NM at Active Imagination) and was constantly expanding. When the Blood Angels Codex dropped I changed over the them for a change in direction, I still kept losing (Not just losing, but getting tabled with the scenario ignored.). My last games where in a three round tournament (with my BA) in which I won the first 2 games and tied the third with very little in the way of kill points. Later I picked up a Tyranid force just to paint (was always better at that). I eventually left ABQ and moved back to Louisiana with my record of 2W-1D-198L and I wish I was making those numbers up. After I got back, I sold both armies.

Fast forward to a little more than a year ago to Lafayette. I had, since selling my BA and Nid forces, gotten heavily into Infinity and Warmahordes. My win-lose in both those games being average, so I know it may not have been me that lead to my 40k record. I then let some players talk me into coming back to the game that got me started in wargaming, to which I chose CSM. My record in the 2 games I played where 1-1, again leading me to wonder about my previous record. With my CSMs I didn't like the constant drumming of run 2-3 Helldrakes or lose attitude and tried other lists that worked without them. I have since sold off the old Alpha Legion.

So given all that, with friends who still play, is the game worth getting back into for 7th ed? Is it balancing back out enough that I don't have to play a broken army to even have a chance of winning? Do I have to spend a crap load on the giant vehicle blocks/infintry spam in order to have a chance? Can I just run what I feel best suits my play style and have the game still be fun?

If you folks could enlighten me I be very appreciative. In fact I'm still trying to decide which army (SM, Guard, Eldar, Necrons, Nids) to play if I do get back into it.
 

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well from the old codex nids got bashed in the face...according to the net and some people here...but i keep getting walls of bullets lobbed at me from them and loose so i dunno about them. Some of the broken vehicle rules got nerfed, im looking at you Vector Strike. Im a new player so not all that wise but the 7th codex seems ok to me, but i come from being an avid (and by avid i mean over 10k in cash dumped into the game) magic the gathering player and i dropped that because it wasnt the game i started playing 10+ years ago. I say go watch some games with the new rules maybe ask someone if you can "borrow" an army for a game to see how things work and make your mind up from that. that way no money gets spent until you want to.
 

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I say yes. I always have fun. My friends and I don't build 'cheese' lists except to have fun trying to play or beat them. We mix up games and armies and sometimes play randoms at the FLGS. This seems to keep it fresh and fun.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
One of my big questions is, are there built in incentives to play the scenario as is? I ask because in Infinity the rule says "the player with the most VP at the end of the game, wins." There it doesn't matter if you table your opponent as the only thing that matters is VP.

Also, I hate seeing the same army over and over, that's another reason I asked. When I had my crap record I was only ever playing against Space Wolves, IG, and the occassional BA army, which got old really quick. In fact the few times I was able to get an opponent playing these 3 armies were the only times I came close to winning prior to my final tournament.
 

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To be honest, your stance makes it so no matter what happens your going to be unhappy with 40k. I would suggest not spending the money on it, everything you had issues with is still in the system. I personally have fun playing the game, I do not go to win the game, for the first year or so I won 2 while playing 3 times a week. I win about 50% of my games now. Most of this is because I play what I want to play at that moment and not what would most likely win for me. You will lose games, you will see the same players over and over again, that is the nature of this hobby. If you found that to be tiring and not fun then this (as in 40k specifically) is not the hobby choice for you. The money spent getting back into it (a few hundred now if not more) would be better spent on a system you will find more enjoyment playing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks for the enlightenment, I wasn't sure if anything had changed in player methodology with this edition. So WFB it is!
 

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i agree you sound as thou you looking for reasons NOT to join rather than reason to join..fanstsy has the same issue as 40k old codex new codex etc..
i think its better you send the time looking at the club...find a club with guys like my store...we spend more time writing our own campaings and stories and are having a blast..the WAAC players tend not to get involved with us and thats fine..we have drawn a line in the sand and said :hey this is HOW WE want to play" like it or fuck off!!

and we are having a blast...no body cares about winning..i have a 90% win average..and can play whatever i want and still win...(not trying so sound like a dick)
good players will alwyas find the tactics and combos to play good lists..40k or fanstasy the same,

my suggestion..7thed is great..codex;s issues yes..but are getting better..so maybe its you that need to look at the game how you want to play it.
 

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i agree you sound as thou you looking for reasons NOT to join rather than reason to join..fanstsy has the same issue as 40k old codex new codex etc..
i think its better you send the time looking at the club...find a club with guys like my store...we spend more time writing our own campaings and stories and are having a blast..the WAAC players tend not to get involved with us and thats fine..we have drawn a line in the sand and said :hey this is HOW WE want to play" like it or fuck off!!

and we are having a blast...no body cares about winning..i have a 90% win average..and can play whatever i want and still win...(not trying so sound like a dick)
good players will alwyas find the tactics and combos to play good lists..40k or fanstasy the same,

my suggestion..7thed is great..codex;s issues yes..but are getting better..so maybe its you that need to look at the game how you want to play it.
Good post!
 

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So given all that, with friends who still play, is the game worth getting back into for 7th ed? Is it balancing back out enough that I don't have to play a broken army to even have a chance of winning? Do I have to spend a crap load on the giant vehicle blocks/infintry spam in order to have a chance? Can I just run what I feel best suits my play style and have the game still be fun?
In my opinion, no it isn't worth it.

The problems I find with it are pretty straight forward, but basically it boils down to the fact it is just far FAR too time consuming: Like you I started dabbling in other gaming systems. It quickly became apparent that these systems are all invariably less time consuming in almost every aspect; It takes me 5 minutes to pack for a game, of say, Infinity (dice and tape measure included). It takes me maybe a week to paint a whole faction ready for a game. I do not have to spend time shifting through a myriad of supplements and rulebooks to play a game or to understand what I am up against. This applies to all the other games out there such as Malifaux, Dystopian Wars and so forth.
So after a short while it became very obvious I would not have as much time for 40k anymore if I wanted to play these games too. Then, overtime, I just dedicated less and less time to 40k to the point I have now lost all interest in playing it now. I just do not have time to paint 100 models to a standard I am remotely happy with, and nor do I have time to pack for half an hour and cart around a huge suitcase containing a 40k army. Nor do I have time or money to buy supplements/rulebooks, especially when GW now seem content on releasing a new edition every 1 and a half years. Sorry, but that is just taking the piss. I think that was the final straw for me tbh. And no, 7th didn't happen so quickly to address any balance issues with 6th, it's unbalanced as ever, GW do not care about balance...

I used to not give a fuck about the balance issue, but even that eventually pissed me off, as again it boils down to a time issue: I do not have the time or inclination to homebrew broken rules anymore. Sure, you don't have to play people who have broken cheesy lists...Yep, I don't! I can instead play a game with a balanced ruleset where I don't have to houserule or homebrew it to make it enjoyable and get my gaming club to agree with it. If you have time to do all this, then more power to you. I really do not.

It's a huge shame, as I still love the 40k fluff and cannot let go of my 4 armies as I put so much love and time into them. But on the flipside at least I can just focus on the painting, fluff and modelling side of 40k now and have more time to devote to this now I do not play anymore.

Seriously, try a few games of 7th 40k now that you have played Infinity. I bet you will not like it lol If you do like it, more power to you. I wish I could still love it like I used to.

SF
 

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So WFB it is
Eheh wat? I like 40k, but it is an unbalanced system (and i like it for that, too much "tactical" and "leveled" games are more unnerving to me than flawed games.)
This said, WHFB is even more broken (breakeble) by waac players. Is, imo, even more money and time consuming and estremized. (infatnry hordes win, magic win. thats it)

40k is awesome, but if your pals are not changing list and have themselves stuck in a cheese mindset...thats not 40k's fault, it's their. SO, again, awesome game, got some debugging, still have some issues (namely Tau and some Eldar lists) but the setting is amazing and the models eat WHFB alive (some armies, that is...others are underwelming)
If you don't want to spend 200 + € in a game, stay away from anything that is GW.
If you want techno battles try dropzone commander. with 100 € you will have a ton of funny stuff, nice models and an average ruleset. OR try mordheim. :)
 

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In my opinion, no it isn't worth it.

The problems I find with it are pretty straight forward, but basically it boils down to the fact it is just far FAR too time consuming: Like you I started dabbling in other gaming systems. It quickly became apparent that these systems are all invariably less time consuming in almost every aspect; It takes me 5 minutes to pack for a game, of say, Infinity (dice and tape measure included). It takes me maybe a week to paint a whole faction ready for a game. I do not have to spend time shifting through a myriad of supplements and rulebooks to play a game or to understand what I am up against. This applies to all the other games out there such as Malifaux, Dystopian Wars and so forth.
So after a short while it became very obvious I would not have as much time for 40k anymore if I wanted to play these games too. Then, overtime, I just dedicated less and less time to 40k to the point I have now lost all interest in playing it now. I just do not have time to paint 100 models to a standard I am remotely happy with, and nor do I have time to pack for half an hour and cart around a huge suitcase containing a 40k army. Nor do I have time or money to buy supplements/rulebooks, especially when GW now seem content on releasing a new edition every 1 and a half years. Sorry, but that is just taking the piss. I think that was the final straw for me tbh. And no, 7th didn't happen so quickly to address any balance issues with 6th, it's unbalanced as ever, GW do not care about balance...


SF
So your hobby, that you elect to spend your free time on, is TOO time consuming? That just sounds strange to me, and maybe it's just my viewpoint, but you only have to spend as much time on it as you want to. There's no one standing at your throat with a knife telling you to paint those hundred models or else. I've had a Daemon prince model that i've been painting on and off for three years, and it's still nowhere near finished, but i can still use it in a game nonetheless. I don't think time is really a major reason not to play 40k, I can think of plenty of others but that one just doesn't sit with me. A hobby is something for you to occupy your time with so you aren't left suspended in infinite boredom and tv-watching

Now I can see where you're coming from that 40k has lost a little of its shine. In 5th edition I was playing three or four games a week, going to tournaments and events at least once a month, and I enjoyed it immensely, making plenty of new friends and having a huge amount of fun in general. Then 6th edition dropped and the army I played was basically made null and void by the advent of Cron Air and Triple Heldrake lists, to the point where I dropped the hobby completely for over a year. I'm just getting back into 40k now with 7th and i'm loving it again. The tournament and gaming scene as a whole, at least here, haemorraged players during 6th, but it's slowly picking up pace again. I definitely think 7th edition, while different to what they might be used to, is a great opportunity for other people to return to 40k. The kinks are still being worked out, naturally, but it seems to be an edition worth playing again.
 

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Moved to General to aid in visibility.

No, I don't think it's worth it. GW has gone off the rails.

Try Infinity, it's awesome!
 

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So your hobby, that you elect to spend your free time on, is TOO time consuming? That just sounds strange to me, and maybe it's just my viewpoint, but you only have to spend as much time on it as you want to. There's no one standing at your throat with a knife telling you to paint those hundred models or else. I've had a Daemon prince model that i've been painting on and off for three years, and it's still nowhere near finished, but i can still use it in a game nonetheless. I don't think time is really a major reason not to play 40k, I can think of plenty of others but that one just doesn't sit with me. A hobby is something for you to occupy your time with so you aren't left suspended in infinite boredom and tv-watching.
Um, what? I was very clearly explaining how it is in my personal life, which is why I started with "In my opinion..". Just because you may have all the time in the world to dedicate to 40k doesn't mean everyone else has, and vice versa. And actually it totally IS a valid reason why many people are leaving 40k, at least in my neck of the woods...But whatever.

Yes, I did elect to spend time on 40k. I used to have time for it. Now I do not, as quite frankly it is becoming more and more time consuming as time goes on (especially with the new edition every 20 months). Sorry you don't like that.

A hobby is something for you to occupy your time with so you aren't left suspended in infinite boredom and tv-watching

Oh right. I didn't realise you were the fucking Hobby Police. My mistake lol. But seriously, if you have nothing else to do in your life other than "hobbys", you may want to reflect on what you are doing with your life. Do you really spiral down into despair and "infinite boredom and watching TV" when you aren't putting time into 40k? If you are that dependant on 40k, maybe it's time to drop some acid, bang your girlfriend/wife a bit more, study, read a book, travel, exercise, scuba dive etc...You know, there is stuff out there other than 40k...I know that is shocking to a lot of 40k fanboys. But it's true. Honest.

Personally in my life as I get older I have less time to dedicate to wargaming. It could well be an age thing, as I am in my 30's. Most the people around me and at gaming clubs are also heading into their 30's. I really believe talking to people at gaming clubs and the ageing 40k fanbase that time needed to dedicate to 40k is a big factor.

Your logic is so superfluous when you say "Oh, but you don't have to paint your 100 models." No, I don't, but it's nice having a fully painted army, I find much more satisfaction from having a nice looking army or faction on the table. The point is it takes fucking years to paint, I do not have that time anymore as I get older, and i'd rather just play the gaming systems where I can knock out a faction in a week. When you combine it with having to cart around boxes of models, codices, rulebooks etc, finding storage space for it all it becomes a fucking pain in the ass.
With 40k: I get home from work, have to rush packing for half an hour, then cart it all to my gaming club, unpack it, re-pack it to take it home, then unpack it again the next day. With everything else: It takes me 3 minutes to pack everything into a tiny box and throw a tape measure. dice and a rulebook into my little back pack...I now have 25 minutes spare. That is a lot of time for me where I could be, you know, spending time with my wife so I can see her before going out.

This is just how it is with me and a lot of the people I know right now. I think your priorities change as you get older. I accept for other people this may not be a problem, as you may have more time. Great. Good for you. I am happy for you. But when time is at a premium do you not at least see how it could be a problem and an annoyance? Especially when you factor in things like having kids to look after. Suddenly those gaming systems that take up less time, space and hassle just become much more appealing. That is the very simple point I was trying to make. Not really sure why you got so defensive about it. But whatever dude. Enjoy your life the way you see fit. It aint anyone else's buisness.

SF
 

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As said, it really sounds like you're not that interested in getting back into 40k. If you really wanted to you wouldn't need to ask the question.

I haven't really done anything 40k related for a while now, more down to the group of lads I game with losing interest at the advent of 6th, moving on to Flames of War and Bolt Action. However, a new SW codex has rekindled my interest in both playing and painting with 40k again, without needing to ask myself if it's worth it.
 

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The best opponents I have ever played are the people with beautifully painted, unique and clearly loved armies.

Playing WAAC armies with the 'out of the box' look is part of GW, part of any style of gaming, I accept that.

I used to run a very 'try hard' style of play, with all my armies. And found all I had to paly for was the win.
I am now currently re-working my Night Lords, spent quite a lot of time and money to make an army I enjoy playing and (hopefully) being played.

Win/Loss record is a tiny corner of the game. It's like playing CoD purely for the K/D ratio.
If you're concerned about that, and it's the defining point on whether you return to 40k, I suggest you don't. WarmaHordes etc is fun as it is, don't put yourself in a position where you feel down because you can't 'win'.
 

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This thread got... Weird. You ask if it is worth it, you got peoples opinions and now you nag about it that it does not fit your life cause it is to time consuming? I'm in my 30ties aswell, wife, kid, work, squbadiving, birdwatching, hiking, running, 40k. I spend like 1-2 hours a week to 40k and then I count reading BL books. Does it for me. If you want a hobby that takes less time try; acid, bang your wife a bit more, study, read a book, travel, exercise, scubadive etc. Then what I read between the lines is that you want some deeper reason to do 40k just to make it right before someone who disapprove you doing it.
 

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This thread got... Weird. You ask if it is worth it, you got peoples opinions and now you nag about it that it does not fit your life cause it is to time consuming? I'm in my 30ties aswell, wife, kid, work, squbadiving, birdwatching, hiking, running, 40k. I spend like 1-2 hours a week to 40k and then I count reading BL books. Does it for me. If you want a hobby that takes less time try; acid, bang your wife a bit more, study, read a book, travel, exercise, scubadive etc. Then what I read between the lines is that you want some deeper reason to do 40k just to make it right before someone who disapprove you doing it.
I was NOT the OP actually, idiot.

SF
 

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Um, what? I was very clearly explaining how it is in my personal life, which is why I started with "In my opinion..". Just because you may have all the time in the world to dedicate to 40k doesn't mean everyone else has, and vice versa. And actually it totally IS a valid reason why many people are leaving 40k, at least in my neck of the woods...But whatever.

Yes, I did elect to spend time on 40k. I used to have time for it. Now I do not, as quite frankly it is becoming more and more time consuming as time goes on (especially with the new edition every 20 months). Sorry you don't like that.

A hobby is something for you to occupy your time with so you aren't left suspended in infinite boredom and tv-watching

Oh right. I didn't realise you were the fucking Hobby Police. My mistake lol. But seriously, if you have nothing else to do in your life other than "hobbys", you may want to reflect on what you are doing with your life. Do you really spiral down into despair and "infinite boredom and watching TV" when you aren't putting time into 40k? If you are that dependant on 40k, maybe it's time to drop some acid, bang your girlfriend/wife a bit more, study, read a book, travel, exercise, scuba dive etc...You know, there is stuff out there other than 40k...I know that is shocking to a lot of 40k fanboys. But it's true. Honest.

Personally in my life as I get older I have less time to dedicate to wargaming. It could well be an age thing, as I am in my 30's. Most the people around me and at gaming clubs are also heading into their 30's. I really believe talking to people at gaming clubs and the ageing 40k fanbase that time needed to dedicate to 40k is a big factor.

Your logic is so superfluous when you say "Oh, but you don't have to paint your 100 models." No, I don't, but it's nice having a fully painted army, I find much more satisfaction from having a nice looking army or faction on the table. The point is it takes fucking years to paint, I do not have that time anymore as I get older, and i'd rather just play the gaming systems where I can knock out a faction in a week. When you combine it with having to cart around boxes of models, codices, rulebooks etc, finding storage space for it all it becomes a fucking pain in the ass.
With 40k: I get home from work, have to rush packing for half an hour, then cart it all to my gaming club, unpack it, re-pack it to take it home, then unpack it again the next day. With everything else: It takes me 3 minutes to pack everything into a tiny box and throw a tape measure. dice and a rulebook into my little back pack...I now have 25 minutes spare. That is a lot of time for me where I could be, you know, spending time with my wife so I can see her before going out.

This is just how it is with me and a lot of the people I know right now. I think your priorities change as you get older. I accept for other people this may not be a problem, as you may have more time. Great. Good for you. I am happy for you. But when time is at a premium do you not at least see how it could be a problem and an annoyance? Especially when you factor in things like having kids to look after. Suddenly those gaming systems that take up less time, space and hassle just become much more appealing. That is the very simple point I was trying to make. Not really sure why you got so defensive about it. But whatever dude. Enjoy your life the way you see fit. It isn't anyone else's business.

SF
I wasn't having a go at you, I was questioning you. You seemed to completely misinterpret pretty much everything I said. What you do with your life is completely and utterly inconsequential to me, don't mistake me querying your logic for me actually giving the smallest particle of a shit what you elect to do with your time.

I'm going to address your questions, and disregard the completely absurd tone that you've chosen to take with them.

The whole 'infinite boredom and TV' was simply a figure of speech, which may have been lost on you. 40k is a distraction and a way to pass time that doesn't involve staring at a panel of lights that make shapes and colours. It's there as an alternative to some less stimulating ways to pass time.

I am not the hobby police, i have never studied hobby law and wouldn't know how to apprehend an armed and dangerous enemy of the hobby. So that's that debunked.

I'm not dependent on 40k in the slightest, up until a few weeks ago I hadn't touched a model in about a year and a half. I chose to get back into it not because I'm the metaphorical crack addict who's having a relapse, but because, as adults are perfectly allowed to do from my understanding, I changed my mind and actively wanted to reconnect with the hobby. I'd rather not do acid because my brain is quite capable of stimulating itself without the need to talk to inanimate objects or become terrified at the sight of a teacup. I work an average of about 50 or 60 hours per week, so I don't really think you have a place to tell me that I need more than just 'hobbys', or as i'd say 'hobbies' in my life. I also think the amount of time I spend . . . sexing. . . isn't really relevant, since 40k occupies a totally different time slot for me than the aforementioned bed related activities.

The word superfluous was also not really relevant to my logic, since logic can't really be superfluous, because that would mean having excess or too much logic. I don't see how that even makes sense.

I can see how a hobby might be an annoyance, and if that is the case then it probably shouldn't be one of your hobbies at all. Lot's of things irritate and annoy me, and in an astonishing turn of events, none of those annoyances are a hobby of mine.

As my final point, i'll just highlight the comedy of your closing statement, where you claim that I got defensive, yet if you read my post, simply questioning your logic, followed by your spate of personal attacks, apparent concerns for my sexual activities, and general raging, i might have said that it was you who was being overly defensive :wink:

G'day mate. :good:
 
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I was NOT the OP actually, idiot.



SF

Haha! I didn't notice that late inte evening. Your post just fitted right in with what he had written before. Still, a weird relationship to an hobby. Sounds like you should talk with your other half about how to unlock more time for your hobby. If she is cool with your 40k hobby she could help find a way. Other than that is seems you have good priorities in your life since you want to spend with your family rather than plastic men. But then don't nag about it.
 
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