[bobinatorect]

I really need to ask this, and I know its a little stupid but it is driving me nuts.

Is Feel No pain considered a save?

I had to go against Mephiston recently and had Runes of Warding on my side so Mephiston suffered 3 Perils and wounded himself twice. But since he has Feel No Pain he ignored both. Perils of the Warp says no saves allowed (of any sort). So should he get Feel No Pain? Is Feel No Pain in its own category of rules? If so then what is it. We classify things that count as shooting, things that count as wounding, so why not classify things that count as saves? I figure that anything that prevents you from losing a wound is a save. Does this make sense to anyone else, or am I just crazy?

 

[Ordo Xeno Commander]

feel no pain is a universal special rule, like a WBB, which is not considered a save. however, feel no pain cannot be taken when the model in question is hit by something that causes instant death or allows no saves, so he should have taken the wounds.

 

[The Wraithlord]

No he shouldn't have. FNP work against -shooting- attacks of double toughness or higher or CLOSE COMBAT ATTACKS that ignore armour. Perils is neither a double toughness shooting attack or a cc attack that ignores armour, therefore allowing the player to roll for FNP against it.

 

[Fallen Angel]

Yeah you can roll FNP against perils of the warp for the reasons Wraithlord said

 

[bobinatorect]

See that is the problem right there. Perils doesn't allow ANY saves.

What so you can't use Feel no Pain against a Warscythe that doesn't allow ANY saves not because it doesn't allow any saves, but because it is a close combat weapon that doesn't allow any saves?

The way I see it no saves means "NO SAVES!"

Besides that its in his freaking head! How much closer can you get?!

 

[bobinatorect]

(sorry for the double post)

If FNP isn't a save then would we be correct in saying that Fuegan, The Burning Lance (Eldars fire dragon Phoenix Lord who has FNP) who gets Fortuned by a Farseer can't re roll his FNP because it isn't a save?

 

[Gore Hunter]

Ah but is Perils classed as a CC attack that ignores saves?
Its Like Plasma guns Plague Marines get their FNP saves against them because they are'nt double their Toughness but seeing as Perils does'nt have a Str value and its not classed as a CC attack you will still get FNP.

 

[bobinatorect]

Perils is Str 6. You still have to roll to wound with it. Besides that, my real question wasn't "Is Perils classed as a CC attack?", it was "Is FNP a save?" If it is a save then you can't use it because Perils says no saves allowed.

 

[oniakki]

From my reading, they're pretty good about putting the word 'save' with the {type} saves. Also in the 'more then one save' section it says that the player can choose which save, but that the model only gets 1 save.

As the FNP rules do not use the word 'save' to describe the roll in it's paragraph, and the roll is made after the save has failed.

I would think that the model would get it's FNP roll for perils of the warp. (assuming the perils of the warp doesn't count as a ccw attack that ignores armor saves and doesn't inflict instant death.)


my 2 cents... and first post it seems ^^;

 

[bobinatorect]

Perils of the Warp requires you to roll to wound correct? So what kind of attack is it? Ranged, Close Combat, or is it in a different category of "attack"?

 

[Drax]

it is neither a shooting attack nor a close combat attack and as such neither of the exclusions in FNP apply.

therefore the FNP is always allowed

 

[oniakki]

I get the impression it's a 'generic' hit, neither CC or Shooting.

However, if forced to classify it as one of those 2 types, I vote that it'd be shooting normally, from the comment in the psychic abilities section that unless specially noted, a psychic power is subject to the usual shooting rules.

 

[Drax]

but it isn't a psychic power - it isn't even initiated by the opponent (it is just tthat in this example the chances of occurring are increased by the opponent), so it wouldn't fall under those rules.

if in doubt, dice for it and hope 5th ed makes it clearer, but my interpretation is that FNP is granted.

 

[bobinatorect]

Ok, the problem I am having with FNP being used against Perils of the Warp is that no saves are allowed. So even guys with Invulnerable saves who are supposed to be either very lucky or very tough don't even get a save. So why does a guy who is very tough get a save? I mean, I understand Farseers with Ghosthelms can ignore it with a 3+ because all they do is use psychic powers and they are "masters" of them, but I am still having trouble seeing a human just "ignoring the pain" of his brain being fried by the warp creatures.

 

[Drax]

it isn't a save - it is the ability one way or another of being able to shrug off wounds - so in this case it causes him harm, but he is that resiliant that he can still carry on regardless - there is no barrier against harm (neither phyisical or immeterial) with FNP, it is the ability to withstand pain that has already happened.

 

[oniakki]

true, I was assuming the perils test was just a part of the failed psychic power and fell under the same constraints. The roll off and pray is a pretty common solution that does work pretty well for these odd rule combinations.

My group has the perils of the warp as a 'non-categorized' hit and allows the FNP roll to avoid the wound. (I caught enough of them on before they went to bed to get a quick poll. ^.~)

{...} but I am still having trouble seeing a human just "ignoring the pain" of his brain being fried by the warp creatures.

maybe only the parts of his brain that register pain got fried ^.~

(and apologies for double-posting)

 

[bobinatorect]

it isn't a save - it is the ability one way or another of being able to shrug off wounds - so in this case it causes him harm, but he is that resiliant that he can still carry on regardless - there is no barrier against harm (neither phyisical or immeterial) with FNP, it is the ability to withstand pain that has already happened.

So how much pain can really be shrugged off from brain damage?

 

[Drax]

in this case - any as long as you roll a 4+

but this is my interpretation remember

 

[bobinatorect]

in this case - any as long as you roll a 4+

but this is my interpretation remember

good comeback....

But it still doesn't make sense from any point except RAW.

 

[oniakki]

So how much pain can really be shrugged off from brain damage?

Depends on what parts of the brain are used for psychic powers. And how extensive/what type the damage is. Remember receiving a 'wound' in 40k is 'not necessarily dead, they may merely be knocked unconscious or be incapacitated in some way'