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Well That Was Unexpected
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey everyone, I just wanted to start a fluff discussion about my newly chosen legion the Iron Warriors and advance a few ideas. I think its no secret that the IW are under-represented fluff wise (except storm of Iron I know lol). So when I was trying to think of a legion to play I never thought of IW because they always seemed like depressed cry babies with a freudian fascination with big guns....however I have a few ideas about them I'd like to share, get feedback on and listen to other viewpoints.
My own interpretation of them is they are alot like the German WW1 Stormtroopers and post-WW1 Freikorp. I know its typical to use the World War's as a reference (especially Germany) but I do think there are similarities.
The IW are good at assaulting heavily entrenched enemies and are also solid in building defences of their own just like Germany in WW1. Also the story of how they massacred their home world population on Olympia is similar to the Freikorp's post-war actions. The IW simply could not respond rationally to events after their brutalisation in the trenches of hundred and thousands of worlds. Also the rebelling of Olympia is alot like post-war Germany in the sense that the society no longer wanted or respected the Empire and its legions and was a hotbed of mutinous ideas and intentions.
Now I could be completely off base with this line of thinking, so please don't hesitate to give different or conflicting opinions about the current fluff. Also don't think you have to respond to just this idea, I want to hear everyones ideas. The hope being that maybe we can inject a little life into the bland codex we have at the moment and maybe come up with ideas for gaming with the IW. So what do you all think?

P.S I'm new here to heresy and just posted my first IW army list over in the chaos army list section so take a look at that as well if you like.
 

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Craw-Daddy
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I'm a big Iron Warrior fan myself. I think very much like the events that made Angron what he was, Perturabo (Iron Warrior Primarch) was influenced somehow into becoming what he was. I'm very interested in a novel on the Iron Warrior novel. The Iron Warriors have definitley become chaos worshipers in their own way and have not become legions like the Night Lords or Alpha Legion who have no truly given to the chaos powers.
I had created a little story a couple weeks ago about how Perturabo became the way he did. Hopefully BL will create a good piece of work on the Iron Warriors that doesn't demonize them.

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=70686
 

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I think the description that you put forth sounds closer to my idea of the Death Guard, especially after their descriptions in Galaxy in Flames and Flight of the Eisenstein.

The Iron Warriors are experts in siege warfare, which is different from trench warfare. I am not really certain if the Iron Warriors have any historic analogue, but Perturabo could be compared alongside Roman general Lucius Flavius Silva who, in late 72-early 73 AD, laid siege to and captured the impenetrable fortress Masada. The big similarity between the two being that both fell out of favor with their Emperor and had their accomplishments removed from the respective archives of the empire they had served.

While I am not saying that Perturabo is an exact allegory of Silva, it is the most apt comparison of which I am aware and it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility to have Perturabo written as an amalgam of Roman generals as they were noted for their innovative siege methodology and feats of engineering.
 

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Another tiny (and by tiny I mean one line) of additional IW fluff comes from the Tyranid codex. Apparently one of their supposed impregnable fortress worlds, Forgefane, was overrun by the hivefleet Leviathan in less than a week.
 

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Well That Was Unexpected
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hey everyone, some great posts and replies so far. Good call space cowboy, now that ive thought of it trench vs siege is different, although don't forget they are good themelves at constructing in depth defences and kill zones etc. You example from Rome was actually very interesting and great food for thought :) although I think the Romans in general were excellent at sieges, remember Caesar and the Gauls as well.

I don't know CKCrawford don't you think it would be more interesting if he wasn't influenced by someone else, but he has his own flaws? What could those have been?

Excellent news pb100 I like alot of Graham's work, well done at getting the inside scoop. Hope he does a good job. What do we all think will the opening be about the IW besieging a tough alien race ala the other HH novels :) ?

Hailene thanks for that bit of information. Although I hate the idea of it falling so quickly, if I remember correctly I think he wants to hunt and kill a particular tyranid MC and epically fails obviously. I would imagine the IW would still be heavily Xenophobic, what say all of you?
 

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Craw-Daddy
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I don't know CKCrawford don't you think it would be more interesting if he wasn't influenced by someone else, but he has his own flaws? What could those have been?
I don't know, I actually prefer Black Library's take on the fallen primarchs thus far. They don't daemonize the primarchs like GW original depiction originally did. Every primarch so far had some reason to join the heresy. They even managed to somehow give a good reason to why Angron of the World Eaters had had a vendeta against the emperor from the beginning. I would have preffered a book on the World Eaters, but the story De'shea did a good job of showing a lost side in which Angron once knew brotherly bond with his gladiators and had it taken away from him. BL has a lot of stuff with GW fluff around on Perturabo to show his human downfall unlike Angron.

As for flaws though, the major flaw that every one of the primarchs had including those of the loyal primarchs was that deep down inside the core of them they were still human, thus creating a gap for corruption to flow. To be honest, if BL went the route where all they did was show how evil and terrible Horus, Fulgrim, Angron, and the other traitor primarchs were it would be quite boring and cliche. I personally think its about the human qualities we can relate to as readers that make the downfall of the traitor primarchs quite a good read.
 

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The strongest impression I've had from both Storm of Iron as well as the CSM codex is that of the midieval castle siegework, with large war engines and massive assault waves through entrenched, hazardous defenses. Certainly their tactics also hail from World War era strategy (just look at the Imperial Guard! maybe it's because 40k originated in the UK...? *gasp*) and Greek/Roman siegework. All the descriptions of huge fortresses being attacked/built using massive artillery batteries and waves of troops simply excites the Dark Ages feel (which is entirely appropriate given the 40k mythos).

As for the IW goals in Chaos, there was an almost subtle reference to their purpose under Chaos when the warsmith addressed Honsou before the breach of the fortress walls. It ocurred to me that the IW joined Horus during the heresy upon considering the raw power of Chaos and its ability to boost even the lowliest mortal to undeniable strength. Before millenia of corruption, the first IW traitors beleived they could harness the power of Chaos to lay seige to all the aliens and enemies of humanity, uniting humanity under the power of the Warp. of course, for this to truly work the Emperor had to turn to Chaos as well, and we all know how THAT turned out :p
 

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Well That Was Unexpected
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I've just finshed reading the Index Astartes article about the Iron Warriors and I'm pretty impressed. It gives a decent amount of info and provides a story at the end about the Iron Warriors destruction of a planet, their tactics, motivations etc. Although there are still some things I would like to flesh out and discuss a little more.

Firstly - I actually like the whole 'bitter and twisted' angle, I really like that Perturbo took Dorn's vanity as a personal slight and refused to let it go. I like this because that's exactly how I am (pulls out my Stalin/Nixon style enemies list) and I think from a charcter/narrative perspective it isn't ncessarily as one-dimensional as some of the other personas (I'm looking at you Angron or Russ).

Secondly - I do think GW / BL need to elaborate more on the resentment felt by the legion at being typecast as siegebreakers who are denied any of the glory. However, they really need to be careful because they tend to typecast the legion themselves! This is because during the story in IA the IW were represnted as having no other motivation than tearing down a fortification because they supposedly view any but their own as an insult. Now I don't mind that as a secondary source of motivation and a point of satisfaction for the legion/warband, but as their sole goal it seemed dumb.

Finally - What do you think their relationship to chaos is like, how much do they dabble in daemon summoning and worship? Would they summon daemons to help in their assaults, would they scour planets with daemon style booby-traps maybe, along with minefields, explosives etc?

Well those are just some thoughts for the moment, as I'm trying to figure out some background fluff for my own warband and I don't want them to just go about attacking fortifications. Don't forget I have an army list over in the Chaos section so check it out and see what you think and maybe any suggestions about it from a fluff perspective.

So what say you?
 

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Well I wouldn't call myself an expert but I just started my iron warrior army and from what I've read they seem to pretty much ignore the benefits of deamons. Not sure why but it could have something to do with always relying on themselves during siege.... Or I could be completely wrong who knows?
 

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You Iron warriors fan's might be in luck:

"f you were there, I hope you enjoyed the event, and were pleased with the reveal of the secret title of the Iron Warriors Horus Heresy novel I hope to write one day…"

I saw this on Graham McNeill's website the otherday.
here's the url if you want to read the whole article: http://www.graham-mcneill.com/gmblog/PermaLink,guid,c722e562-b000-44d9-929e-d3db11dca68d.aspx
Well it's about damn time. The HH series as been tantamount in importance for establishing pre-heresy fluff. It has made me mad how, other than in passing mention, the Iron Warriors have been ignored.
 

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nice idea CKC and yeah the Iron warriors do get a little overshadowed by thier bigger traitor ahem allies. i loved Storm of Iron and have been a little bit dissapointed that Honsou has not really featured in his own stand alone novel and only shorts or part of Ventris's life.
i was happy to see Perturabo in the last HH DA novel but i really hope they do go in depth a bit more and apart from Prince Macneil brinigng the Iron Warriors to life it would be great to see them in more novels.
[personally i think they wroshp the gods when it suits them honsou was never one by my interpretation to be a complete follower of the gods but he did tip his head to them when he thought it might suit him.
 
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