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Discussion Starter #1
Hey you Venerables, help out a 40k Newbie, and Hello-I'm new here!

OK ICD Ass/laun ?
offers both Assault grenades and Defensive -Right codex pg103

Do Defensive grenades give me -SHOOTING-6th rule book pg62
does the Dread get STEALTH SPECIAL RULE Also ? -6th RB pg42


Many Thanks :grin:
 

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Welcome! In short: yes.

Your dreadnought does have both assault and defensive grenades, and will get some sweet cover saves provided the unit shooting you is within 8". You also deny the +1 attack charging bonus which is pretty awesome.

Something I'm suddenly more interested in knowing is if assault launchers count as weapons towards a 'weapon destroyed' result from the vehicle damage table?
 

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Welcome! In short: yes.

Your dreadnought does have both assault and defensive grenades, and will get some sweet cover saves provided the unit shooting you is within 8". You also deny the +1 attack charging bonus which is pretty awesome.

Something I'm suddenly more interested in knowing is if assault launchers count as weapons towards a 'weapon destroyed' result from the vehicle damage table?
I'm fairly certain that the Assault Launchers state 'the unit counts as being equipped with...' So I'd say no, because there's no way to Weapon Destroyed grenades.
 

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It says 'counts as being armed with' but I still agree with what you said. There's no wild difference between equipped and armed that I am ignoring, is there?
 

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well, the real question is less the wording and more: can you normally destroy grenades? Can you FIRE grenades? They're really not weapons, they're wargear.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Welcome! In short: yes.

Your dreadnought does have both assault and defensive grenades, and will get some sweet cover saves provided the unit shooting you is within 8". You also deny the +1 attack charging bonus which is pretty awesome.

Something I'm suddenly more interested in knowing is if assault launchers count as weapons towards a 'weapon destroyed' result from the vehicle damage table?
So would you say the ICD would get the STEALTH RULE?-thanks:)
 

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Can you FIRE grenades?
Yes you can. Check Page 61. The assault launcher does now give the Dread another weapon that can fire an S3 blast out to 8 "
 

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Huh. Interesting. However, even reading that rule, it still doesn't really feel like it's a weapon that can be destroyed, but still wargear with the option to forgo shooting for a specialized attack.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
I don't think even GW knows, called them-they say its a given that the Dread has Grenades like scouts have in their profile-but the dread dosent have grenades in its profile-ONCE you purchase the option of a Grenade launcher for pts cost per codex-The launcher comes with Assault/Defensive grenades codex pg103-but gw agrees that the defensive grenades ability affords you the Stealth Special Rule always giving you + cover save out in the open (within 8inch) and + to being in terrain if being fired upon in the 8 inch range (I imagine as long as you still have the launcher)

Am I allowed to show these Values in this post? if not I will Edit out-its just hard to discuss games rules based on points/points cost and values without showing the #-But i'm new here and want to abide-so Please LMK and I will fix ASAP!
 

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Probably better to leave the numbers out, you can just assume we all know the implications of being granted stealth.

Just to clarify you only get the 6+ cover in the open if the firer is within 8" of you, not sure if you meant that as your post doesn't seem to read that way.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Probably better to leave the numbers out, you can just assume we all know the implications of being granted stealth.

Just to clarify you only get the 6+ cover in the open if the firer is within 8" of you, not sure if you meant that as your post doesn't seem to read that way.
Yep-It should have been conveyed to that meaning, but I kinda skipped over it-Ooop's!:grin:
 

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Yep-It should have been conveyed to that meaning, but I kinda skipped over it-Ooop's!:grin:
So what do you think?

Is this another "counts as" does not mean "is"

So the Dread counting as having assault grenades doesn't mean it can "throw" them?

If it can make a shooting attack with them by throwing, does that mean it is now a weapon ?
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
So what do you think?

Is this another "counts as" does not mean "is"

So the Dread counting as having assault grenades doesn't mean it can "throw" them?

If it can make a shooting attack with them by throwing, does that mean it is now a weapon ?
Well the way I Understood it-it just gives the Dread the ability to launch grenades kinda like a scout does-Something you have to buy if you want to use grenades-but is not really a weapon -like popping smoke, what I like about it is having it gives you STEALTH Rules so you get Cover save, and a better cover save if your in cover. in addition you can use it when charging into terrain without losing charge points-or- use it on a squad about to assault you within the 8 inch and they lose their extra charge-If what I was told was correct :shok:

*just a reminder I'm asking you 40k masters-not telling-So I may still not have my facts right!
 

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This is an easy one for me.
Grenades are weapons.
They are listed under the Weapon section of the main book.
They have Weapon profile lines where applicable.
A grenade is as much a weapon as a storm bolter is.
If a dread is armed with a storm bolter then that bolter is a weapon and can be destroyed.

The ironclad with assault launchers is now armed with assault and defensive grenades (and it does say 'armed' rather than 'equipped with' further singling them out as a weapon system)

Back in the day when grenades had no offensive power then they were basically just like smoke launchers, equipment and nothing else.

Now they actually can do damage. They have a weapon profile, they are listed in the rulebook as weapons. They are weapons. A piece of equipment that counts as a weapon is a weapon.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Clearly that makes perfect sense in this reality, but in 40k reality a sniper -someone with a precision Long range weapon and expertise skill -you would think a lot of training would be involved-has the same BS as anyone else-Ooop's sorry Snipers BS is not equal to SM using a pistol. But I rather the Grenade Launchers are a weapon choice-a weapon Fired-a weapon Destroyed.:whistle:
 

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Ooop's sorry Snipers BS is not equal to SM using a pistol
That's because the sniper in question is a Space Marine in training.

Glad to see some other people thinking they are weapons. I agree, Galahad. If it can shoot, it's a weapon on a vehicle that can be destroyed.
 

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Well...in the IG it's typically the veteran and ratling units that get heavy access to sniper rifles. Both of those units have superior BS compared to regular guardsmen...and marines give their sniper rifles to raw recruits who aren't even full space marines yet so it's hardly surprising that they do not have superior bs compared to other marines. Every space marine started life as a sniper, so of course a fully fledged mrine is going to have the same or better shooting ability.

Plus the lethal accuracy of snipers is covered by the sniper weapon rule. A sniper rifle is so nasty because its user usually gets you in the vitals...if you're aiming for the vitals you're aiming at a smaller target and thus it takes more training to hit, giving them an overall comparable BS Someone with a sniper rifle can headshot you with the same ease as someone with a lasgun and the same bs trying to hit your chest...and conversely will miss just as often.

He can also do it from further away. Being able to hit a target just as well but from half-again the distance is a measure of accuracy as well

Also, that has fuck all to do with the fact that weapons are weapons and wargear that is a weapon is a weapon.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
That's because the sniper in question is a Space Marine in training.
Dang! your Right! sorry my Sniper example went off topic- Anyways I know the ICD was released a few years back and it appeared everyone in my game store had to have one-when I looked at the model and saw the
launchers (as seen on C/R Land raider) most thought they were Armour .

that's what prompted my ? here-by now hasn't this come up before-anyone here played a ICD this way-I'm new to this-I cant be the first to ask-perhaps when an updated marine codex will have all this explained.
 

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It doesn't really need to be explained.
Grenades are weapons.
 
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