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Discussion Starter #1
So recently there was an event called Enter the Citadel at GW Nottingham, and since we haven't seen a lot sharing the information I thought I'd put some here. All this content is from The Responsible One blog, and edited down to just the questions and answers due to length:

BoLS Requested Questions:

Q1: "Do you feel that certain units such as banshees and genestealers should be changed to have grenades considering the impact of overwatch?"
Q2: "Is there a possibility we will see Howling Banshees fixed in an errata as currently they are comprehensively inferior to Striking Scorpions even with being cheaper. Lack of plasma grenades, reliant on unreliable buffs from a unit that can't join them to inflict wounds an inferior Mask and and inferior Acrobatic."
A: Assault grenades and assault units are a difficult point. You can't just give absolutely every unit grenades, because at that point, why would you have a rule to penalise assaulting into cover? There needed to be distinctions between Howling Banshees and Striking Scorpions, otherwise everyone would be taking Banshees and the Scorpions would be being decried as useless. Phil does love Eldar and its a careful design line to not to make them The Best At Everything Ever. He still uses Banshees in his own army.

We also had a short conversation about making Banshees more effective. I couldn't recall if your initiative is still penalised if you're charging a unit that is already engaged with someone else (that may be a way to bypass the lack of grenades). The Dark Eldar also have a piece of wargear that bestows assault grenades onto the unit they've joined - while allying isn't to everyone's taste, a Dark Eldar independent character with this kit joining the Banshees could create an effective, punchy unit.

Q: "Are they happy with the speed of releases for sixth edition?"
A: In short - not answered. Rather, they asked us our thoughts on it!

Q: "Why did they not give the Hemlock Wraithfighter better armour or a better jink save considering it is only armour 10 and will die to even bolter fire, yet has to hang out at range 12 (bolter rapid fire range) in order to get any use out of its Mindshock pod?"
A: There was a general comment during the Q&As that establishing newer units in Codexes was generally quite hard - people already know what a Fire Dragon does, and how it fits into the army and the background. Newer units, such as the fliers, need to be introduced and will take a while to bed in - the example was given that the Autarch is only just starting to really find his place in the army after a number of incarnations.

While chatting to Phil, his further comments were that it was a difficult line to walk. Fliers have a narrow run of armour between 12 and 10, with 12 being the established heavier fliers, and 11 being the mid range. Eldar are supposed to be lightly armoured and fragile, so 10 is the natural point for them. The subject of the jink save really wasn't covered - we were short on time and I was trying to cover as much as possible.

Q: "Will we see a time when all units will have a model?"
A: They certainly hope so. A newly released Codex will have models for all its units one way or another from now on - this isn't even necessarily something caused by the Chapterhouse situation (while there were questions on this subject, the answers carefully avoided direct references). They were already getting a lot of feedback from people that codexes with gaps in the model ranges were frustrating for people. Its unlikely you'll see a Codex release missing models happening in future.

Q: "I'd be keen to hear what his thoughts are on the rise of 3D printers and how he sees GW taking on that technology into the future."
A: There was a much longer answer from Jes Goodwin I'll cover in that seminar, but in store printing, custom designs, adding your own face to a character model and the ability to mix and match to order were all talked about as things that are not currently technically possible, but could be in the far future. The level of detail and affordability is just not there to see it being a danger or competitor as fast as the internet commentators would have you believe.

Q: I also took the opportunity to ask about the Heavy D Scythe, which has been covered in a couple of blog posts (although ironically I can now only find the one). In short, the description doesn't really match the weapon profile.
A: This weapon did go through some iterations during play testing. The natural progression of a D Scythe would be to move from a Template weapon to a Torrent weapon. If people have concerns about the Helldrake's balance, two Torrent D weapons is not going to stay in line with the overall power curve. I asked if perhaps the blasts should have ignore cover and if that might be updated in the future, but this was part of a multi line conversation and this was one of the things that fell by the wayside...

Developing the Eldar:
Q: Why didn't they go with the Bright Stallion look for the Wraithknight?
A: Jes Goodwin said that this had been the opinion of almost everyone but him! He was concerned that it might not look OK in 28mm rather than the epic scale. In addition, from an aesthetic standpoint, Jes wanted to go with a 2 legged model. He didn't want to go with the most bizarre of all the designs for the first one. In addition, there was a side concern that a "centauroid-thing" had been used for the demon engine design, and they didn't want it to be too similar.

Q: How does the studio playtest?
A: We were told that the first stage is an internal studio playtest. They play games with the draft rules to check for the feel of the army. Is a shooting based army sufficiently shooty? Is a fast army quick enough? They are looking for a broad fit for the feel of the army. This is where most of the army wide special rules are tested and often set - whether that is the power through pain of the Dark Eldar or the reanimation protocols of the Necrons.

They then bring in 'external' people to do a second playtest. They look to get a wide variety of people for this - managers, tournament players and hobbyists. This is for repeated tweaking before its finally sent out. The process can be very complicated and frustrating, as there are so many variables. They typically use ten to fifteen people for playtesting, who are all Games Workshop employees.

This is a change from the past, when a group of players, including some American tournament players, were used to test things. However, it was never clear how much those outside the company were discussing with their friends or posting anonymously to the internet. By using employees, Games Workshop has a recourse if someone does post something to the internet ahead of release.

Q: What was the aim for the new book?
A: The aim with the new Codex was to try and make the best version ever - including the best bits of all the previous codexes as well as new material. Phil regards the second edition Eldar codex as the "defining template" for the Eldar. White Dwarf 127 was a seminal moment for Phil, and was the motivation for him to start to collect an Eldar army. Many aspects in the army were classic and he took a "If it's not broken, don't fix it" attitude with them - and thus kept some more or less the same from the last Codex.

The Eldar Codex as a whole needed a theme. The Eldar are fast, but the Dark Eldar are supposed to be faster. Matt Ward did a lot of work on the psychic powers, and also came up with the Battle Focus rule. Phil likes the rule as it makes them "elfier". He's Phil Kelly, so he's allowed to make new words like that.

A concept becomes stronger if it is re-iterated. The Crimson Hunter aspect has had less time to become established than, say, Fire Dragons. Harkening back to earlier versions both refines a concept but also matures it - like a good cheese. It would be silly not to use existing background and mechanics where they are working.

Q: As Games Workshop don't tend to progress the timeline or story of their games, how do you fit new things in?
A: If you can tie in with existing things, it makes it better. They deliberately leave loose ends so they can come back to them later. Many Eldar subjects haven't been touched yet - Exodites, and a lot of models from the old Epic range. Why not use the existing resources rather than something else? Codex supplements and allies gives Games Workshop much more capability to do new things.

Q: How many iterations the rules go through in development?
A: Phil said that it can depend. Sometimes they get it right first time - others go through multiple versions.

Q: Why the 12" range of the Shuriken catapult? Is it too short?
A: Phil said that things are defined by their weaknesses as well as their strengths. Eldar are typically strength and toughness 3, even among many of their characters - they are defined by these weaknesses.

For the Shuriken Catapult - it is a weapon for the Guardian Defenders - a weapon of last resort. It's a thing that's being fielded in Guardian Squads because they don't have enough troops - the Eldar don't want to have to use them. They are a citizen militia, and they are equipped with a short ranged weapon for use in extremis. In order to match their background, they need to be equipped with a weapon that balances within the army - you don't want Guardians to loose that flavour by having a super effective weapon that means they're gunning down people like Space Marines, who are dedicated to war.

Q: What do the developers wish "wasn't there".
A: Phil misunderstood the question and said he wished that they had available options for all the weapon options given for the exarchs. The question was more focussed on whether or not there was something that was historically present that they wished they didn't have to include but had to.

Jes joked "Eldrad" following up with an impersonation 'Whining on . . ."We're doomed!"...' (Emphasising this was a snappy joke - don't send Jes hate-mail - I can't emphasise the jokey tone enough in the imperfect medium of the internet.)

Phil then answered that he felt that it really hadn't ever gotten to that point. As an example, he mentioned that the Autarch was now finding his place. Whereas before they were potentially seen as a conceptually weak 'Exarch plus', now they were growing into the role of a dedicated commander and leader. They're still not as strong a concept as, say a Farseer yet, but he still thinks they should be there.

Q: There is sometimes a conflict between the descriptive text and feeling of an army, and the rules, and how the games designers try and resolve that.
A: There are definitely clashes for balance purposes. The Farseer is an ancient psyker who can predict the future, but his powers are still generated randomly - because that's how things work in 6th edition - everyone does that. This is an artefact of the game system not fitting with the background.

There's also the issue of fitting with the 'meta' of the overall game. It is very hard to make a game fair if you're fitting in with the meta perfectly. Jes interjected that if you play perfectly by the meta, then half the time, the Eldar shouldn't actually show up the battlefield. He'd just have Phil fight you instead, playing his Tyranids.

Q: Was there anything you wanted to do that you couldn't?
A: There were three or four concepts that they wanted to do that they couldn't afford to this time around. They had to make the hard choice between Wraithguard or Jetbikes. Releases are designed around the plastic. Jes commented that he has grown more patient over the years. What you want will be in the next release, or perhaps the one after that.

Phil said he realises that he's not just designing this release, he's designing in the context of that year's releases, perhaps even that decade's releases. More releases for Eldar now would penalise the next army's release.

Jes said that if you look through his sketch books, you could have an interesting exercise in matching the dates of the concept sketches to the dates of releases. A short discussion led to the realisation that Jes Goodwin has drawings that are older than Phil Kelly. (This may be a lie. But I'm not sure. I think Jes is about as old as the Eldar...)

Q: Another audience member asked if they felt constrained by the need to include models for everything in a Codex release in the wake of the Chapterhouse Studios verdict.
A: For clarity - neither of them directly mentioned Chapterhouse, or commented directly on the case. They were very careful to talk about the restrictions they are under in general terms rather than anything specific.

Jes spoke clearly with some emotion, simply saying "You don't want to leave anything trailing. It's horrible, but you don't have a choice."

Phil then interjected and said that in some ways, its a blessing in disguise. Customers will be able to get everything in a new book from Games Workshop. It put him as a games designer into a tighter, more streamlined place. He doesn't have to tackle so much by focussing on the release. Deliberately putting in entries to develop models later is clearly not a good idea. The faster release cycle is useful in that it reduces the need to to do that. He also commented that it is frustrating for the customer to - you want this cool unit or that cool unit you've read about, but you can't get it in a Games Workshop store.

Q: Will new supplemental codexes bring new models?
A: Maybe. You could speculate. It opens up the game. You don't have to wait so long. Codexes and models are no longer tied. The flexibility is increased.

Come the Apocalypse
Q: What is different with the new Apocalypse?
A: They've added new rules, and new scenarios. There are Unnatural Disasters, Finest Hours, the list went on. Formations have been included to give people benefits for placing your tanks / models in a certain way. They also wanted to focus on the social aspect of the game.

Phil is especially fond of the Master of Disasters. One is appointed at the start of each game turn. He was not allowed to include a rule to say you had to wear a special hat. The focus of the book was very much on arranging a big social game. Players should consider it a permission slip to go crazy. You can theme your battles, and destroy the world you're fighting on. You don't have to include these rules, it is up to you.

They've added Warzones - Armageddon, and shortly coming, Pandorax. These are campaigns from Warhammer 40K's background. There will be extra data sheets and so on, including bespoke stuff from those backgrounds. They allow you to take those backgrounds and form strongly themed games in the context of a particular bit of history or timeline.

Guy Haley mentioned in passing that the novel "Baneblade" was written about two years ago, but had been waiting for an appropriate release slot.

They said that one of the things they are trying to do with 6th Edition is to make it feel like you are there on the battlefield. This is one of the reasons behind having a Warlord. They wanted you to have a trooper or commander's eye view of the battle, not a God's looking down.

It was mentioned that Yarrick and Ghazghkull both have Finest Hours which continue while their nemesis remains on the field.

Q: Is Apocalypse needed?
A: They strongly believe so. People were locked into the idea of 40K being fixed point value battles. The book needed to say "you can do this". It can take you where you want to go.

They commented it was scary how quickly people like to put things into a box of restrictions that the designers never intended.

The book talks about how to organise large battles and how to make it easier to do. Its a toolbox of stuff. It allowed Games Workshop to make the big models.

Warzones are "Codexes for Apocalypse". They focus on warzones, etc. They will cover a number of armies. Pandorax is a completely new warzone, while Armageddon is an existing historical one. They've tried to inlcude lots of flags and portraits to bring the campaign to life.

Phil Kelly and Guy Haley are working on another, new Warzone - working collaboratively with the Black Library to help write the background and setting. The idea is that in addition to the existing 'classic battles' of 40K history, they will add some new ones.

Q: What are your favourite bits of Apocalypse?
A: Jervis likes Unnatural Disasters. He wasn't convinced with them to start of with, but the players loved it. He feels he learnt something from that. It lets you go a bit "Michael Bay".

Phil likes Datasheets. There will generally be a story and a theme to datasheets. Phil already had 25 Fenrisian Wolves and a fwe Thunderwolves, so he decided to buy enough models for the huge flanking wolf strategem in the book.

(My notes fail at this point, I think it was Guy's favourite thing): The warzones - they're like the Osprey campaign histories. He needs to be enthused to write, and the details in the warzones really help with that.

Q: How do you make sure the game is balanced?
A: The trust the players. Not every game will be balanced. But an unbalanced game can still be an excellent experience - it's about the story. Balance is often actually equated with fun, and feeling like you contributed. Spectacular is not always balanced.

They then derailed for a few minutes as a discussion of how most players of Apocalypse are friends with each other, and in many way, the battle is a way of expression that friendship or relationship. This then completely derailed with the line "Their eyes met over the Ork Warboss"...

You have to come at the games with the right spirit. Groups of friends will arrange a game, and there will be a lot of discussion before the game about what's going to happen. The players should like and respect each other to ensure everyone involved has fun. It is not the only way to play teh game. It is not for everyone. They're not making this for a "market", they're making it to show other people how they (the Studio) have fun. They are sharing and showing that.

Q: What about old data sheets?
A: There wasn't enough space for everything. New Warzones will include some old ones, plus some new ones too. Probably not 100% of the old datasheets will be produced, but most. They are not as likely to include as many of the old conversion from the epic range where there is no existing model. There will still be some conversions.

They appreciate Apocalypse for its effect on people's collections. People have moved to thinking of it as an army, not a series of isolated and separate 1,500 point 'things'.

In some ways Games Workshop treat 40K like it's "real".

Q: "How much do you have to put in expected features, and how much are things you love instead?"
A: There's more freedom in Apocalypse, so they can put more stuff in there. You are working to a brief - you need to release rules for the Baneblade, for example, or some players will {my writing in my notes gets frantic and unintelligible at this point}.

Q: "How much are you constrained by technology?" (In the context of someone who works in the computer game industry asking)
A: You aren't as constrained by technology as in computer game design. There's a lot more freedom in that respect.

Q: "Why did you take the points values off formations?"
A: We wanted to give people a reward for focussed collections.

Q: "What's in the new Pandorax Warzone?"
A: Dark Angels, Catachan, Grey Knights, Black Legion and Demons. It's about Abaddon's ongoing nefarious plans. There's a battle report on board a space ship. It runs from asteriods, through space, and into an Imperial space ship. There's a planet with dinosaurs on it. Space Marines, fighting, in SPACE! It was a surreal board to play on. There was a cargo lift carrying Baneblades into the fight. There was also a cross section with a little control room with a small kill team game - Dreadclaw versus the admiral, to decide who would control the main guns.

There's links to the other bits of background and story for Abaddon's cunning master plan. You can call on the gods during the battle - in this one (during the playtest), Khorne was called on an his sword blow killed nine fliers instantly. Phil said that this was probably a bit too powerful, so after this playtest they dialled that back a bit.

Q: Will there be allied formations?
A: Yes, a few. Like the Heroes of Armageddon, which consists of Black Templars, Blood Angels and Imperials. It will be rare, though.

Q: Did they work closely with Forge World?
A: Yes, and they were happy to help. They took some of the classics from Forge World such as some of the mainstream Titans. They got lots of advice from the Forge World people as they have a lot of experience of designing and building on this scale. Warzones will include additional Forge World products.

They then clarified - Warzones aren't supplements to Codexes. They are more like a smaller Imperial Armour book. Warzones are far more varied - including plants and dinosaurs.

Q: "Where do you go to top up on inspiration?"
A: Guy Haley: Whisky Bar.

Phil: Sci fi books and films. Greek myths as well. He tries to incorporate that sort of thing. Archaeon's quests in Warhammer Fantasy could be seen to be influenced by the labours of Hercules, for example. 40K is more like Science Fantasy than Sci Fi. Space Wolves can be seen to be like Beowulf. In many ways, the old legens are The Stories, and those echoes are often repeated.

Jervis: Military history. For Pandorax, he got to do a map like the old WWII Naval Battles. Its an inspiration and a homage to what inspired you when you were younger - all ramped up to 11.

Guy again: 40K is effectively self sustaining now. He views writing for Black Library as similar to writing a historic novel - you need to research. He has a massive collection of the old Ork book and early White Dwarfs which he used for an Ork short story he wrote recently. You have to think about things like "how does Marine Terminator armour work". How does zero gravity affect fighting? He likes to add in some hard science fiction, and finds inspiration in many different places.

Developing Big Miniatures:
Q: What are the challenges when designing bigger kits?
A: The biggest problem is scale - making sure details on the model give it pace. You want to have a balance of big areas for painters to play with as well as detailed areas to give it a sense of scale compared to the other models. This can triple or quadruple the amount of time you're spending on developing a kit.

You've also got to make sure it fits in with the rest of the range. For the Riptide, it wasn't just a case of scaling up a Crisis Suit, you need to add more details.

If you're a converter trying to make something look big, one of the simplest tricks is to make sure it has a smaller head. Matt Holland referred back to the old comic book character Thrudd the Barbarian - his tiny, tiny head let you realise that he was massive, even if you weren't seeing him alongside other people. Without tricks like this, the eye assumes the scale.

Q: What was the inspiration for the Riptide?
A: Big robots are cool.

Matt talked a lot with Jeremy Vetock about the model during the development of the Tau book. They talked about the nova reactor, which resulted in the asymmetrical reactor design. This helped them develop its background and battlefield role. If you know what various bits of detail are, its easier to sculpt them. It enables the suspension of disbelief so people believe it could feasibly work.

Jes added that the big chest on the Wraithknight was to fit in the pilot. Matt and Jes also talked a lot to avoid treading on each other's toes between the Riptide and the Wraithknight. Matt discussed with Jeremy about what to have the Riptide do other than just be a big Crisis Suit. They came up with the idea of a mobile reserve unit, moving quickly to fill a gap in the line of the Fire Warriors, taking out enough of the threat for them to cope, then moving on to the next threat. Simply sculpting a bunch of nice shapes onto the model isn't enough - you design knowing what they are and what they are meant to do.

The new kits also now give the option to either stick with an easy, fixed pose, or to remove the guide pins and make a more complex, animated figure. The designers spent some time on finding a single cool pose to lock each figure into, but gave the option to remove the pins to 're-animate' the figure.

Q: How long does it take to create a figure like this?
A: Generally, around two years. Actual working time varies. It starts with around two weeks of concept work, and then takes between three to six months to make. This work includes making sure that the kit will fit onto the frames. They need to make sure it will work as a plastic kit.

More models these days are sculpted on computer, although Jes is a pen and paper guy.

How do you decide what models to make?
A: Dart boards and Star Trek style fights.

Really, it comes down to what you have ideas for. Both Jes and Matt wanted to include a shield on their kit (Riptide and Wraithknight) so they had to communicate a lot to ensure the two designs were sufficiently different. There are two races who have big walkers, the Tau and the Eldar, so in some ways, they were an obvious choice.

They did much better than expected - they couldn't keep the Riptide in stock. Jes acknowledged that this was a bit weird, in the sense of who genuinely thought "big robots won't sell"?

Q: Are there size restrictions on what you can do?
A: They have to fit the frames into the boxes. The Tau probably don't want to have a bigger walker than the Riptide, so if they have a bigger model, it wouldn't be a walker. In Jes' head, the Knight Titan is about the line. They will put restrictions on themselves, but for the big walkers, the attitude was "why not?".

They need to think about the idea of a gaming board, and the scale of a Space Marine. Scale is an odd thing - "heroic scale", as its called. Games Workshop don't particularly fit to a scale. 28mm is not a scale. They are, theoretically, 1/56 scale.

But you have other challenges. Can you fit 10 Space Marines into a Rhino? Only if you really get your foot in and force it! They need to not reach the point where a model is unwieldy to move around. They have done drafts to get the size right. Who knows what the future holds with regards the size of models?

Jes made a little side point that "Marines are the right size."

Is there anything Forge World have done you'd like to do?
A: Some of Jes' old Eldar designs went to Forge World. They don't really find redoing something of Forge World's as exciting as doing something new. They don't want to tread on their toes, either.

Q: How do you find inspiration for new units for established and restrictive ranges like the Space Marines?
A: Jes is not keen on doing a big walker for Marines, as that isn't how the army works. They would look to try and think of something else. They would look at the core archetypes for their range? Is a big tank suited to the Marines? Not really. They are a rapid reaction force. Variant APCs are something Jes would find more interesting in the Marine army. Jes has now 'handed over' Marines to younger folk.

Q: Could Tyranids go bigger?
A: They could definitely go bigger. They could fill in the gap. The Trygon was kind of the first of the big miniatures on that scale.

Q: How do you decide where to split up a big model?
A: Right at the beginning. They also start work on the frame layout right at the start. Some models are easy to find lines to break the model up, others, such as the Hellpit Abomination, are really hard. Plastic can only be so thick, and you can only have detail on one angle in the mould. You have to have those things in mind from the start.

Sometimes, they have to move details. Seals and ammunition packs can hide joins. They are designers for an industrial process, working within specific technical constraints, and that is part of the challenge.

Q: Is there a concern that big models will dominate the game?
A: The models Games Workshop make are not just gaming pieces. They are also catering to collectors and painters. The designers aren't concerned about it at all. In many ways, that's the writers' problem. Also, you need infantry to look up to the big kits to show the scale. The big models are the icing on the cake - and big fancy models are cool.

Q: Have Games Workshop considered magnetising their kits?
A: Not really. People are free to modify them to do so, but Games Workshop can't produce the relevant magnets in house - which is another component. They'd be left unable to control the price of the models. Its left as something people can choose to do if they want, but the kits aren't actively designed with that in mind.

Q: What about 3D printing?
A: 3D printing isn't there yet. The resolution isn't good enough for 28mm scale. The desktop machines extrude plastic, and that doesn't have the detail. Higher end machines which have more detail are very expensive. Games Workshop use them for rapid prototyping. Volume and price just isn't there at the moment.

Jes thinks it will take longer than five to ten years for it to become a real challenge, and even then, Games Workshop could easily adopt the technology. The technology might allow you to make an online purchase to print at home, or allow you to scan your face and have it put on a model. You could pick your weapons before your model was printed. It wouldn't necessarily be the end of the stores, either - you could go into the stores to get models or custom parts printed in store.

Q: Do you prefer plastic figures or resin for hero models?
A: Jes likes the challenge of plastics. Not trying to make the character models compatible with the rest of the range frees you up a bit. Matt's Savage Orc was an example, where the ponytail and shoulder were one part.

Plastic is the best medium for reproducing the sculptor's work at the moment. Metal and resin shrinks and warps. You have different constraints for different models. Eventually, it is likely that they will go all plastic.

Jes then finished by mentioning that the flexiblity could also have some halfway houses. For example, his recent Farseer model does have a comparable neck fitting for the rest of the Eldar line. There's a range of configurations they'll be able to work with in the future.

The rest available is the Studio asking the audience for some feedback, so I'm not going to repost it here. I will add more though if more is posted though.

1,825 Posts
Very good stuff. I was a little put off at first. The first couple questions feel like people bitching about things they don't like. But there are some good nuggets hidden in there. If you take the bit about them saying a Knight Titan is the biggest kit they'll make plus the bit about Space Marines not needing a big walker, you get interesting possibilities. Maybe the Knight Titan will be for IG or a smaller Apoc unit. But there is a lot here if you look.

Premium Member
6,385 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Very good stuff. I was a little put off at first. The first couple questions feel like people bitching about things they don't like. But there are some good nuggets hidden in there. If you take the bit about them saying a Knight Titan is the biggest kit they'll make plus the bit about Space Marines not needing a big walker, you get interesting possibilities. Maybe the Knight Titan will be for IG or a smaller Apoc unit. But there is a lot here if you look.
Some of the first few questions in each section are questions the studio prepped ahead of time, as a kind of warm up.

Also, I like the fact that they say the Tervigon, not the Dreadknight, was the starting point of the big kits. :laugh:

1,825 Posts
Some of the first few questions in each section are questions the studio prepped ahead of time, as a kind of warm up.

Also, I like the fact that they say the Tervigon, not the Dreadknight, was the starting point of the big kits. :laugh:
They said Trygon, which did come out before the Dreadknight. I think it was the first model on the oval base. Kind of like the Valkyrie/Vendetta was the first Flyer. Come to think of that; it would seem they were planning Flyers ever since the 5th ed Guard dex. Makes me wonder how long they were actually just sitting on the 6th ed rulebook.

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5,182 Posts
Remeber that they said development of a figure can take upto 2 years, so it would not be undeasable they were expecting to do flyers for 2 years prior to the release of 6th edition.

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6,385 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
They said Trygon, which did come out before the Dreadknight. I think it was the first model on the oval base. Kind of like the Valkyrie/Vendetta was the first Flyer. Come to think of that; it would seem they were planning Flyers ever since the 5th ed Guard dex. Makes me wonder how long they were actually just sitting on the 6th ed rulebook.
That they did. I had realized that mistake and editted it, but it seems the change didn't stick. Weird.:shok:
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