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Herald of The Warp
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Right, so I need some input from you guys who usually plays 30k as I am planning my Word Bearers army for the next 6 months.

So far, I have the following:

1 x Praetor (Calth set)
1 x Centurion (Calth set)

20 x Assault marines
30 x Tactical marines (Calth set)
3 x Rhinos

12 x Outrider Squadron Bikes

1 x Sicaran tank

I am planning to buy the following:

15 x Gol Vorbak Dark Brethren
3 x Medusas
1 x Spartan Assault Tank

That should get me up to around 3000, if not more points. However, is there anything that is completely obvious I should bring, where you go facepalm that i didn't include it (not mentioning the primarch)?

Any input on where I should go with the army is very much appreciated, as currently I'm just going for rule-of-cool, where I should most likely be going a bit more focused :p
 

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Well, for Word Bearers you have to include a Chaplain (although I assume that's what the BaC guy is for).

As for some cool stuff to think about adding:

A M'hara Gal Tainted Dreadnought. It looks boss and is a monster. The only down side it Daemons/psykers have to give it a wide berth.

Zardu Layak. Again, he looks boss, enables daemons to be taken as allies (very Word Bearers) and can summon daemons himself (very Word Bearers). Plus his Blade Slaves are basically Gal Vorbak on steroids and since you're already going to town with them...

I'm surprised to see nary a hint of some form of Sicaran variant. Those are pretty great.

You could also think about adding some cults and militia. With Tempest you can create some really cool options from elite shock troops to waves upon waves of screaming cultists (I wonder which one would be more fitting...)

Hopefully that gives you some food for thought :good:
 

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Herald of The Warp
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Well, for Word Bearers you have to include a Chaplain (although I assume that's what the BaC guy is for).
Ah yes, reading up on it he does look like a Chaplain. You are completely right!

A M'hara Gal Tainted Dreadnought.
God, I was hoping you would say that. It looks SO bad-ass! It also looks a bit expensive though?

Zardu Layak. Again, he looks boss, enables daemons to be taken as allies (very Word Bearers) and can summon daemons himself (very Word Bearers). Plus his Blade Slaves are basically Gal Vorbak on steroids and since you're already going to town with them...
Is he the guy that enables the daemons as Allies? He is almost an auto-include for me then - Plus he counts as one of the 2 HQ choices. Nifty!

I'm surprised to see nary a hint of some form of Sicaran variant. Those are pretty great.
Well I did include a standard Sicaran Battletank that is on my shelf. I haven't explored the newer version I have to admit.

Your guides are awesome though - I'm reading through them right now. Top notch work!
 

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God, I was hoping you would say that. It looks SO bad-ass! It also looks a bit expensive though?
It is expensive (both on the wallet and points allowance), but IMO worth it on both counts. The coolness of the model satisfies the monetary condition. And in a display of shameless self promotion, in the tacticas I explain why I think the extra cost of the model is justified. It's not the ruthless points efficiency of things like a Kheres Contemptor Mortis or a Deredeo, but with the winning combo of cool model and still being worth the points you spend on it, who cares?

Is he the guy that enables the daemons as Allies? He is almost an auto-include for me then - Plus he counts as one of the 2 HQ choices. Nifty!
He also unlocks Ashen Circle as Troops, and if you use your regular Assault Marines as Ashen Circle they become more worth their points (again, for reasons I explain in the tactica)

Well I did include a standard Sicaran Battletank that is on my shelf. I haven't explored the newer version I have to admit.
Especially against super-heavies the Sicaran Venetor is brutal. 1 Penetrating hit and a vehicle, even a super-heavy, can only snap fire. Gives you a welcome break from Typhon blasts, Knight Thermal Cannons, pretty much any titan weapons. Plus with S 10 AP 2 it'll do some damage.

Your guides are awesome though - I'm reading through them right now. Top notch work!
Cheers pal. I appreciate that :eek:k:
 

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Rattlehead
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10-man squads in Rhinos don't really scream anything to me - personally, I think 20-man is the way to go for everyone other than Ultramarines or mech spam from Iron Hands/Salamanders etc., but especially for Word Bearers and other combat heavy Legions. You're Cold Blooded with re-rolling 1s to Sweep, make use of that to do better in combat than other people because at the moment, you're not really capitalising on those Legion rules.

The Gal Vorbak... you kinda have a tonne of them but on foot. They're tough, sure, but not all that *quick*. I'd drop some stuff to fit in a Spartan or if you prefer the style, a Storm Eagle.

I like Erebus, as he's a suprisingly good beater for what is nominally a support character and fills up your required Master of the Legion/Chaplain/Diabolist/HQ requirements which ends up making him enable a lot of different lists.

Mahra Gal, I've never really looked into, but it shouldn't be too hard to convert from one of the millions of plastic Contemptors floating around these days :victory: you can cut a lot of corners in 30k surprisingly easily if you want to (I'm running 40k Raptors as Assault Marines or Night Raptors for my Night Lords because hey, they're guys with terror markings and scary additions to the armour but they're about a million times cheaper than the FW stuff).
 

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Herald of The Warp
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
10-man squads in Rhinos don't really scream anything to me - personally, I think 20-man is the way to go for everyone other than Ultramarines or mech spam from Iron Hands/Salamanders etc., but especially for Word Bearers and other combat heavy Legions. You're Cold Blooded with re-rolling 1s to Sweep, make use of that to do better in combat than other people because at the moment, you're not really capitalising on those Legion rules.
Aye, I agree - I will most likely be buying another set of calth in the new year, getting me up to 60 tacs. Then I should be golden for the immidiate future.

The Gal Vorbak... you kinda have a tonne of them but on foot. They're tough, sure, but not all that *quick*. I'd drop some stuff to fit in a Spartan or if you prefer the style, a Storm Eagle.
True, that is why I was considering the Spartan Assault Tank - I also use possessed a lot when I play 40, which is why I'm buying 15 of them. Partially because I love the models, and partially because I see a use for all 15 in both 40k and 30k. A storm Eagle is not a bad idea though - Thanks!

I like Erebus, as he's a suprisingly good beater for what is nominally a support character and fills up your required Master of the Legion/Chaplain/Diabolist/HQ requirements which ends up making him enable a lot of different lists.
It seems in general that Erebus and Zardu are two most-have characters from what i can see. I really like what they both bring to the table and the fluff is .. Well.. So totally awesome.

you can cut a lot of corners in 30k surprisingly easily if you want to
Aye, I know what you mean. I'm also looking into what i can use from my current collection in 30k. Conversions etc - I'm sure it will be looking great someday!
 

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Rattlehead
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Aye, I agree - I will most likely be buying another set of calth in the new year, getting me up to 60 tacs. Then I should be golden for the immidiate future.
Good shout - I bought 2 Betrayal at Calth sets, which also lets you build up a twin Assault Cannon Contemptor-Mortis which is, in my not so humble opinion, strictly better than the regular version. I mean, okay, I'm not taking my own advice here by running 3x10 and 2x15, but the Terror Assault Rite of War is a cruel mistress.

True, that is why I was considering the Spartan Assault Tank - I also use possessed a lot when I play 40, which is why I'm buying 15 of them. Partially because I love the models, and partially because I see a use for all 15 in both 40k and 30k. A storm Eagle is not a bad idea though - Thanks!
Yeah, they're awesome, and part of me really likes running the special units as a theme so you can bring a 'special character' HQ that suits them - in this case, a Praetor in Artificer Armour with a Jump Pack, Paragon Blade and Tainted Weapon (+1 attack, natch) with some other bits of gear for Argel Tal. In my case, Praetor with Jump Pack, pair of Lightning Claws and other stuff for Zso Sahaal (the forgotten First Captain!).

It seems in general that Erebus and Zardu are two most-have characters from what i can see. I really like what they both bring to the table and the fluff is .. Well.. So totally awesome.
Erebus is a badass, for sure. Zardu Layak I'm not really familiar with, but while the Blade Slaves are *badasses* it gets me jumpy having only two of them. Sure, they're mighty beaters and it's probably just the Night Lord in me but being that outnumbered isn't going to end well.

Aye, I know what you mean. I'm also looking into what i can use from my current collection in 30k. Conversions etc - I'm sure it will be looking great someday!
Yeah, Word Bearers and Night Lords in particular can make out like bandits from the 40k CSM range as long as you stay away from the Cult units etc. (unless you're going for a very late Heresy or Scouring theme). I'd be tempted to use Icon Bearers for your Vexillae if you're using those; as the only real 'Chaos Space Marines' of the Heresy it makes if anything more sense than an actual Vexilla!
 

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''Erebus is a badass, for sure. Zardu Layak I'm not really familiar with, but while the Blade Slaves are *badasses* it gets me jumpy having only two of them. Sure, they're mighty beaters and it's probably just the Night Lord in me but being that outnumbered isn't going to end well.''

I agree the Bladeslaves are amazing; both looking and on the board but yeah only two of them...
 

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Herald of The Warp
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Good shout - I bought 2 Betrayal at Calth sets, which also lets you build up a twin Assault Cannon Contemptor-Mortis which is, in my not so humble opinion, strictly better than the regular version. I mean, okay, I'm not taking my own advice here by running 3x10 and 2x15, but the Terror Assault Rite of War is a cruel mistress.
One question though; The tac squads. If I am to have 60 of them, which weapons are best in 30k? It seems to me that captains should always have Artificier armor and paragon blade, but I don't see any big reason for special weapons in a tac squads to be quite honest.

Maybe I should make 10 of them into to support squads, where they have different loadouts?

I agree the Bladeslaves are amazing; both looking and on the board but yeah only two of them...
Yeah it's a shame you can't buy more. I will have to see what i do with him - I'm guessing, if they die, that he can join another unit as it's only him at this point?
 

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Ahh unfortuantely Captains- Centurions, can't have Paragon blades, but Praetors can, also Centurions don't come standard with Artificer armour - something to keep in mind as the points will begin to stack up for a guy who only has two wounds
 

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Well, there are no weapon options for the standard tactical squad. It's just all bolters all the time.

My advice would be x2 20 man tac squads with apothecaries (because that makes them even harder to shift) and then x2 10 man support squad, one with Volkite Calivers (20 shots with deflagrate for hoard control) and the other with plasma/melta guns (for tanks/2+ guys)

I always give my tac squads the extra combat blades (so bolter, pistol and blade) for the 3 attacks on the charge, but that's because Emperors Children have Crusader so winning combat an cutting you down is easier for me. However, Word Bearers do get some sweeping advance bonus if I recall correctly so that might be good for you too.
 

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Herald of The Warp
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Ahh unfortuantely Captains- Centurions, can't have Paragon blades, but Praetors can, also Centurions don't come standard with Artificer armour - something to keep in mind as the points will begin to stack up for a guy who only has two wounds
Ah duly noted - Thanks!

My advice would be x2 20 man tac squads with apothecaries (because that makes them even harder to shift) and then x2 10 man support squad, one with Volkite Calivers (20 shots with deflagrate for hoard control) and the other with plasma/melta guns (for tanks/2+ guys)
That sounds solid - As far as I could read, you can only have 1 type of weapons in a quad, so you can't mix'n'match like in 40k - Correct?

I really appreciate the feedback man - Sorry for all the questions :good:
 

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30k is still pretty new and with BaC, a bunch of new people have jumped onto a new rule set. It's fine to have questions :eek:kay:

Indeed, in both Tactical Support Squads and Heavy Support Squads everyone must have the same weapon (except for sergeants, they can swap theirs out but only for Melee weapons and the like). On the one hand this means you can have 10 melta/plasma guns, or 10 missile launchers, or 10 lascannons which means you can bring more firepower to bear. On the other, it means you've got to have the points to pay for all of them because you can't have, say, a 10 man squad where only 7 have special weapons.
 

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Herald of The Warp
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
(except for sergeants, they can swap theirs out but only for Melee weapons and the like)
Speaking of which, is it worth it to equip the sergeants with anything special or should I just leave that for the special guys? I was thinking a power sword or the like could come in handy if anything else.
 

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I may well be a bit biased about this because my Emperor's Children have to challenge so mine are always tooled up with the best gear a) to get glory when they win and b) because if I lose I suffer a -1 Ld penalty.

For a legion that doesn't have to challenge though, I think artificer armour is useful to soak up wounds and keep things alive a little longer. I would be tempted to give the sergeant a power sword just because the couple of extra attacks at AP 3 might swing the combat for you if you fight other tacticals (which you probably will). But, as I say, I can't really imagine not kitting out my sergeants
 

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The Curmudgeon
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From personal experience, as I have been playing with Heresy armies for many months now, I feel that I should add this to your thoughts.

If you are doing Word Bearers and you haven't planned to use their Ashen Circle units, you're doing it wrong. Word Bearers get gross and broken when they start summoning daemons from the Warp and wrecking face. I suggest you do that.

Also, depending on the armies you face, Tac Support Squads can be helpful or useless, even with Volkite. Fury of the Legion with a 20 man squad in Rapid Fire range gives you 80 shots to throw down range... trust me, I've done this with my Salamanders and owned much. However, nothing is as fun as sending a 10 or 20 man Breacher Squad, resplendent with meltabombs for every single man in the squad, to go tank hunting. Also fun.

Heresy era armies really come down to 2 things, what you like, and how you make what you like wreck face. For me, I love the Salamanders/Emperor's Children. One army is slow, ponderous, and I can obliterate Mechanicum/Tank heavy armies with impunity thanks to Fire Drakes, Pyroclasts, and Breacher Squads. My Emperor's Children is all about speed and close combat grossness in equal and painful measure. If you want to make the most out of your Word Bearers, it might be wise to examine how you see their army, their tactics, then go from there. It sure worked for me.
 

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Herald of The Warp
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
If you are doing Word Bearers and you haven't planned to use their Ashen Circle units, you're doing it wrong.
Oh? I haven't seen them mentioned anywhere beyond the fact that they are available - Are they that good?

Word Bearers get gross and broken when they start summoning daemons from the Warp and wrecking face. I suggest you do that.
Oh most definitely - That's why I chose WB in the first place; The ability to summon Daemons!

Fury of the Legion with a 20 man squad in Rapid Fire range gives you 80 shots to throw down range... trust me, I've done this with my Salamanders and owned much.
That does sound absolutely devastating I have to admit. I like it!
 

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The Curmudgeon
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Oh? I haven't seen them mentioned anywhere beyond the fact that they are available - Are they that good?
Well, just going by the word of the friend of mine who has a word bearer army, it was the first unit out of his mouth when he was explaining his army list to me. And with him, if it's in his army, it wrecks face. I only ever win against him thanks to mission objectives, never in kill points if that's any indication of how hardcore his lists can be.

That does sound absolutely devastating I have to admit. I like it!
It's really the only reason to field the Tactical Squads in the first place. They blow as far as close combat is concerned, and tanks chew them up like they were paper, but if you can get them near some equally squishy infantry, they murder people. The only drawback is, once you Fury, the next turn they can't shoot because they all have to reload their dry magazines. The price you pay for pasting people I suppose.
 

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I wanted to write this post earlier, but I had to read (and assimilate) @Deus Mortis tactica articles first (which are purely amazing, thank you for those).

Word Bearers are probably the easiest way to build up an army that can be used in 30K and 40K without too many changes (regarding Traitor Legions, at least, in terms of miniatures and tactics).

The Dark Brethren Rite of War, even if situational, seems however a nice combo/option with Zardu Layak when the plan is going to build up a WB army with Daemons Allies (which seems to be your plan, @Nordicus , despite your first basic list ?) : Zardu Layak counts as a Diabolist and Master of Legion (i.e. only 2 HQ needed, even if the Battle Scribes files I have don't take it into account), it may give good buffs to many units in Close Combat (25 pts is not so much compared to the 40K Marks and Icons costs) and the limitation for Heavy Support is less restrictive as some tanks (like Predators) may be bought in Squadrons.

I just wonder whether Daemons don't break up the balance in a game where all armies are based upon the same "Codex" ?
 
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