[Vaz]

Just picked this up in the latest 7th edition FAQ

http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Errata/Warhammer_40000/Warhammer_40000_Rules_EN.pdf

"An Independent Character without the infiltrate special rule cannot join a unit of Infiltrators during deployment, and vice versa".

What this means now is that IC's with Infiltrate must deploy seperately, regardless of whether or not they use the rule for Infiltrate. While they can (i think) join units during the move on from Reserves, or mount vehicles, surely it would have been easier to say that only units entirely composed of models with the Infiltrate special rule may deploy in that manner?

 

[MidnightSun]

Technically, yes, a character with Infiltrate can only deploy with Infiltrators whether they're doing their special deployment or not.

Practically, no, the FAQ ruling is purely to prevent you from adding an Infiltrating character to a unit and dragging them along with him.

Also, where did you find the document? BL still shows 'Last updated October 2014' for me.

 

[Vaz]

I was linked to it on another thread, so don't know where they got it from.

But in regards to what you're saying, my wording of the rule is the better rule for that, requring only units fully composed of it, rather than just banning people from joining normal units and giving away free snipes early game.

 

[scscofield]

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Rules-Errata

Bottom of the website leads to it.

 

[MidnightSun]

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Rules-Errata

Bottom of the website leads to it.

Thanks.

 

[Zion]

Moved to a more appropriate forum for rules discussions.

And I don't think it makes Infiltrating ICs "useless", it just limits their abuse.

 

[neferhet]

it just limits their abuse.

since i play chaos i dare you to find infiltration abuse into the vanilla csm codex

Edit: also, i'm not really aware of some form of abuse from this caveat...can you guys put in some examples?

 

[MidnightSun]

No, we think they're 'useless' because, as written in the FAQ, a character with Infiltrate cannot deploy with a unit unless that unit also has Infiltrate, no matter whether they use their Infiltrate deployment or not. For example, Shadowsun either deploys alone, or deploys with Stealth Suits or Kroot, because they're the only units that have Infiltrate and therefore are the only units eligible to be joined by her.

 

[Zion]

No, we think they're 'useless' because, as written in the FAQ, a character with Infiltrate cannot deploy with a unit unless that unit also has Infiltrate, no matter whether they use their Infiltrate deployment or not. For example, Shadowsun either deploys alone, or deploys with Stealth Suits or Kroot, because they're the only units that have Infiltrate and therefore are the only units eligible to be joined by her.

That's not what it says. It says they can't join a unit of Infiltrators if they don't have the Infiltrate rule (and vice versa). So for your example to be correct it needs to read:

For example, Shadowsun either infiltrates alone, or infiltrates with Stealth Suits or Kroot, because they're the only units that have Infiltrate and therefore are the only units eligible to be joined by her if she's infiltrating.

It only matters if you're Infiltrating, otherwise you're not an Infiltrator. Any other reading of the rule is going into the "your model can't shoot because it doesn't have eyes" level of silliness that troll-logic RAW revolves around.

 

[MidnightSun]

Ah, there we have it; I misremembered the wording on the FAQ on my previous post.

RAW is a thing that people will argue no matter how stupid it is, mang, even when 40k is blatantly obviously meant to be interpreted using common sense.

 

[Words_of_Truth]

This reminds me of Ghazghkull coming on with Blood Axes.

 

[Zion]

This reminds of Ghazghkull coming on with Blood Axes.

That's why the rule was changed in the first place, abuse like that. The FAQ just clarifies it further since Infiltrate is a rule that normally confers as long as a single model has the rule.

 

[Mossy Toes]

Well, it's good to iron out a long-contested rules squabble, even if it means limits CSM options a bit more from my personal camp. Still, honestly, the only way I've run Huron, lately, is infiltrating Daemonettes, rather than any squad he or a character are in.

And good to see immobilized Skimmers can no longer jink.

 

[the_barwn]

yes that did seem a little :laugh: that an imobilized skimmer could still jink

 

[Zion]

Having a second look at Infiltrating, I failed to see before that it's not a "MAY" option anymore. It's a requirement to do so (even if you "Infiltrate" your own deployment zone). That does change things. So yeah @MidnightSun, you're right about it, just for a different reason.

 

[MidnightSun]

That's why the rule was changed in the first place, abuse like that. The FAQ just clarifies it further since Infiltrate is a rule that normally confers as long as a single model has the rule.

Actually, not so - Ghazghkull was permitted to join Snikrot in coming on from the enemy board edge simce Snikrot's 'Ambush' special rule was worded completely differently (and most notably, lacked the IC clause) from the Outflank rule. I think 5th edition actually explicitly stated that infiltrators couldn't drag a character along with them or vive versa, hence why it only worked with Snikrot.

 

[venomlust]

Having a second look at Infiltrating, I failed to see before that it's not a "MAY" option anymore. It's a requirement to do so (even if you "Infiltrate" your own deployment zone). That does change things. So yeah @MidnightSun, you're right about it, just for a different reason.

I didn't notice this either, glad you pointed it out. Infiltrators have to infiltrate. Huh. :nono: