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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I'm a little confused with the vehicle rules for cover.

People keep mentioning using infantry IG to guard their basilisks and ETC, but don't the vehicles still need to be more than 50% obscured? I mean I can still see a lot of vehicle through my dudes and over their heads.



 

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Large enough models packed tightly together can give cover (still needing 50% obscured though), but another vehicle works better.
 

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Alot of it depends on how much infantry is bunched up infront of it and the angle the shooting squad is looking at the vehicle. I could see it happening if the basilisk/chimera/etc was up on a hill with the infantry around it and the unit shooting at it was at the base of the hill. Prolly still modify it to a 5+ save because its questionable but cover saves are like belly buttons in 5th Ed. Everyone gets one :p
 

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If you pile up guard infront of a Basalisk, you will obscure half of the hull. Ignore the gun and gun-shield for it. You really need to pack the infantry densely for this to work though, so it's not always the best idea, but it will work.

Hope that helps :)
 

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I think its generally accepted that an infantry platoon in base-to-base contact with each other is enough to give a Chimera-chassis vehicle a cover save.


Perhaps somebody could post up a picture taken with a camera flat on the table, draw outlines around the guardsmen and the vehicle, and calculate the exact percentage that it covers.
 

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If you pile up guard infront of a Basalisk, you will obscure half of the hull. Ignore the gun and gun-shield for it. You really need to pack the infantry densely for this to work though, so it's not always the best idea, but it will work.

Hope that helps :)
Why do people keep saying you need to bunch them up?
When looking through gaps in a unit, you consider the space between models to be blocked LOS.
 

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Dowjin:
I would say that vehicle was in cover, yes.

Why do people keep saying you need to bunch them up?
When looking through gaps in a unit, you consider the space between models to be blocked LOS.
For the intervening models save, yes. But that doesn't apply to vehicles. 50%, no if ands or buts. Otherwise, you could hide your tank between two trees, and claim that way :)

From P22: Firing between the gaps in a unit or Area terrain, the target counts as being in cover.

From P62: The vehicles facing must be 50% hidden from the point of view of the firer. This takes precedence over other cover rules.
 

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Nope. For Vehicles, or MCs, its all about what you can actually see. 3 Guardsmen holding hands infront of a Chimera singing kumbaya is not going to obscure over 50% of the hull. Same thing goes for gants trying to screen MCs. Most Nid MCs are just too damn tall for their own good! :victory:
 

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Yet another example of a poor game design where the system drives your tactics. What army in the world is gonna try to screen its tanks with infantry? It's always the other way around until you get in proximity to cover, Then the infantry comes out and makes sure there aren't any sneaky gits with AT weapons lurking about.
 

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I think its generally accepted that an infantry platoon in base-to-base contact with each other is enough to give a Chimera-chassis vehicle a cover save.


Perhaps somebody could post up a picture taken with a camera flat on the table, draw outlines around the guardsmen and the vehicle, and calculate the exact percentage that it covers.
Nope, it's generally accepted that you have to physically obscure 50% or more of the vehicle.

And Winterous, no, you do not consider the gaps between models to block LOS. If you did, you could never shoot through one enemy unit to hit the unit behind it. If I can see part of an enemy model through the front unit, I can shoot it, even if all I can see is a foot of a single model between the legs of a front model. The 'magic cylinder' no longer exists. Only the actual phisical parts of the model block LOS. Shooting through the gaps can provide cover, but it does not block LOS.

To the OP, when I talk about screening my tanks with Infantry, I'm not talking about cover saves. I'm talking about preventing assaults or close range melta shots, so those infantry are generally well dispersed around it to provide as large a buffer zone as possible. Assaults and close range meltas are far more dangerous to vehicles than long range shooting, these days.
 

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I think its generally accepted that an infantry platoon in base-to-base contact with each other is enough to give a Chimera-chassis vehicle a cover save.





Perhaps somebody could post up a picture taken with a camera flat on the table, draw outlines around the guardsmen and the vehicle, and calculate the exact percentage that it covers.


Nope, it's generally accepted that you have to physically obscure 50% or more of the vehicle.



And Winterous, no, you do not consider the gaps between models to block LOS. If you did, you could never shoot through one enemy unit to hit the unit behind it. If I can see part of an enemy model through the front unit, I can shoot it, even if all I can see is a foot of a single model between the legs of a front model. The 'magic cylinder' no longer exists. Only the actual phisical parts of the model block LOS. Shooting through the gaps can provide cover, but it does not block LOS.



To the OP, when I talk about screening my tanks with Infantry, I'm not talking about cover saves. I'm talking about preventing assaults or close range melta shots, so those infantry are generally well dispersed around it to provide as large a buffer zone as possible. Assaults and close range meltas are far more dangerous to vehicles than long range shooting, these days.
 

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And Winterous, no, you do not consider the gaps between models to block LOS. If you did, you could never shoot through one enemy unit to hit the unit behind it. If I can see part of an enemy model through the front unit, I can shoot it, even if all I can see is a foot of a single model between the legs of a front model. The 'magic cylinder' no longer exists. Only the actual phisical parts of the model block LOS. Shooting through the gaps can provide cover, but it does not block LOS.
That's not what I meant, I meant granting a cover save through those gaps.
And yeah, I've already said I agree, because it's been proven to me in no uncertain terms (that's how it is for MCs too Q-Q).
 

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Yet another example of a poor game design where the system drives your tactics. What army in the world is gonna try to screen its tanks with infantry? It's always the other way around until you get in proximity to cover, Then the infantry comes out and makes sure there aren't any sneaky gits with AT weapons lurking about.
Well, actually Durzod, thats the FUNNY part about 40k. It is actually true to fluff, system wise.

Notice that most Space Marine armies use their Rhinos/Landraiders for cover, as you suggested. The opposite holds true for the IG! Fluff-wise, it is very status quo for the infantry to shield the tanks, and it actually kind of makes sense. When fighting things like a Carnifex, or a Daemon, or space marines- it's the big guns that win the fight, so the infantry have to keep them firing no matter what... to include being human shields.
 

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Yet another example of a poor game design where the system drives your tactics. What army in the world is gonna try to screen its tanks with infantry? It's always the other way around until you get in proximity to cover, Then the infantry comes out and makes sure there aren't any sneaky gits with AT weapons lurking about.
To answer your question, an army where the men are worth less than the guns that they shoot.
 
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