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JUGGERNUT
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So, despite all the promises I made to myself, I picked up 2 Valkyries off of eBay. I plan to run them as Vendettas (or Valkyries, if that suits the situation).

What is the minimum amount of IG that I need to have a useful allied detachment?

HQ, some sort of command squad?

Veteran squad? I've heard these are what you're supposed to put in Vendettas, but I don't see any "Veteran Squad" for sale from GW.

Infantry? Big blob of guardsmen?

I guess I'll wait for the new codex to drop before buying anything else, but it would help to know what I need to pick up next to have a "legal" list.

Thanks!
 

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My favorite is:
Company Command in Chimera
Platoon Command in Chimera
2 Infantry Squads

This gives you the minimum allied detachment. It provides a great firebase to camp a home objective with tons of cheap bodies while your CSM charge forward to wreck face.

I find the Chimeras to be absolutely essential as 5 guardsmen vaporize when looked at funny. You'll never be able to get an order off without them. My tactic of choice is to put the infantry blob behind an Aegis for the 2+ go to ground, then order them to get back up and shoot at full BS with the company command. Rinse and repeat all game.

For your second troop, veterans are a great choice to ride in the Vendetta.

If you want to go with a smaller detachment you can instead put 10 vets w/ psyker HQ in a vendetta.
 

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Entropy Fetishist
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I say: wait a week or so for the Astra Militarum codex to drop, since that is apparently what they're renaming the Guard.
 

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JUGGERNUT
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I really like the new Stormtroopers, but they're prohibitively expensive to field as an army in their own right... unless I build it up really slowly, I s'pose.

I also really like Vostroyans, but they're $10 more per squad of 10, and also don't have options for some special/heavy weapons :(.

Bah!
 

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The new stormtroopers are cool as fuck, and I just acquired a bunch of IG (or AM rather now) which include a bunch of Vostroyan models that I may very well not be using...

As for Veteran squads, just buy a box set and bling them out with bitz and a sick paint job and bam.
 

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JUGGERNUT
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I think I may just have to settle for Cadians as the basic troops of my army.

This new boxed set (http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Cadian-Defence-Force) is pretty sweet, and saves a lot of money. I imagine that this would be a good box for a player new to the army. Gives you everything you'd need to play a game. I think I could pick one up for ~$132 before tax, so not too shabby.

I'd really like to run all Scions, but the cost would just be obscene. Still, if I go at it slowly I can build up a couple of squads.

But reeeeeeally I should paint my CSM/Daemons before buying anything. Definitely not gonna happen, though :grin:.
 

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If you want scions have them as an elite attachment. Give them all chimeras or them in valkeries, not that vendettas can only transport 6 models
 

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JUGGERNUT
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Yeah I think I'll definitely have them as a component of my army. Once I get the codex I'll see exactly what to buy.

I'm liking Cadians more after finding someone who painted their army in the color scheme I was considering:



It's a bummer that Vendettas can only carry 6. I wonder what the most worthwhile 6-man squad will be. I'll have to start a post about it.
 

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JUGGERNUT
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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
That sounds very fun :).

Guuh I can't wait for the codex.

Yep I think special weapons squads are the obvious go-to choice now. Or Platoon Command Squads as usual.
Is it not risky to have the command squad in a flying transport? How would you use them in that situation?
 

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Entropy Fetishist
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Not the army command squad, but a platoon command squad, since Guard are special in their "multiple units per single troops choice" fancy shenanigans. If you get a platoon, you end up with a tiny, fragile 5-man squad that can issue orders to other squads... or you can give 4 of the 5 members of the squad flamers and throw them in a Vendetta to be a scoring unit that can absolutely wipe a light infantry unit off of whatever objective it's camping on.
 

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Yep. I will continue using PCSs in this way. There is no reason for me not too. I may occasionally dabble with SWSs but actually PCS still trumps them when I think about it...Just cheap as chips and don't really do much with their orders (even with the new orders) so may as well use them as good late game objective grabbers...

Actually I have been looking at my old lists and there is very little if anything I am going to be changing with my IG with the new release...Infantry blobs work exactly the same as they always have, the only difference is that commissars are slightly cheaper and priests are much more tempting, for zealot and their 'war hymns' which can potentially give a big blob re-rolls to hit and re-rolls to wound in close combat.
Combine that with Straken's counter-attack/furious charge and bubble and his new Smash attacks and actually blob guard look a bit better than they did...

But yeah, anyway, off-topic...
 

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JUGGERNUT
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Not the army command squad, but a platoon command squad, since Guard are special in their "multiple units per single troops choice" fancy shenanigans. If you get a platoon, you end up with a tiny, fragile 5-man squad that can issue orders to other squads... or you can give 4 of the 5 members of the squad flamers and throw them in a Vendetta to be a scoring unit that can absolutely wipe a light infantry unit off of whatever objective it's camping on.
That sounds very evil!
 

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JUGGERNUT
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Yep. I will continue using PCSs in this way. There is no reason for me not too. I may occasionally dabble with SWSs but actually PCS still trumps them when I think about it...Just cheap as chips and don't really do much with their orders (even with the new orders) so may as well use them as good late game objective grabbers...

Actually I have been looking at my old lists and there is very little if anything I am going to be changing with my IG with the new release...Infantry blobs work exactly the same as they always have, the only difference is that commissars are slightly cheaper and priests are much more tempting, for zealot and their 'war hymns' which can potentially give a big blob re-rolls to hit and re-rolls to wound in close combat.
Combine that with Straken's counter-attack/furious charge and bubble and his new Smash attacks and actually blob guard look a bit better than they did...

But yeah, anyway, off-topic...
Hey, no worries about being off topic. I'm just trying to learn all the cool/useful/tricky combos.

The huge mistake with my CSM army was buying a ton of stuff I don't need, and will very rarely field. This time around, I want to be smarter with my purchases.
 

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Entropy Fetishist
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The huge mistake with my CSM army was buying a ton of stuff I don't need, and will very rarely field. This time around, I want to be smarter with my purchases.
*looks at 10k points of CSM, several thousand of which may or may not have ever been used*

*whistles innocently*

One combo that jumps to mind immediately with the new codex (though I don't possess it, so this is somewhat speculation) is the idea of getting a Plasmavet squad or platoon command squad with lots of plasma and going sniper-status on it. Throw on Prescience from some form of Divination psyker to minimize Gets Hot, then use the "precision shots" order. S7 AP2 precision shots (more precision 6s with rerolling to hit for BS3, I imagine) to pick off enemy special weapons, banner bearers, squad leaders...
 

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One combo that jumps to mind immediately with the new codex (though I don't possess it, so this is somewhat speculation) is the idea of getting a Plasmavet squad or platoon command squad and going sniper-status on it. Throw on Prescience from some form of Divination psyker to minimize Gets Hot, then use the "precision shots" order. S7 AP2 precision shots (more precision 6s with rerolling to hit for BS3, I imagine) to pick off enemy special weapons, banner bearers, squad leaders...
Seems legit!

I was just thinking up ways of using the access to Divination on shooty units to make them "oh my god" scary...That's a good one though.

Well, Wyrdvane Squads are 60pts a pop and Elites. They are level 1 psykers with access to Div. Good for backfield gunlines. Primaris Psykers are still HQ, but better suited to your plan I reckon.

I was thinking now those LR Punishers look more tempting with the points reduction: 140pts a pop. x3 in a squad = 360pts. Keep a Wyrdvane squad hiding behind and cast Prescience. Will Prescience affect the whole squadron/unit? If so, x60 str5 twin-linked shots protected by av14 armour sounds good to me...
 

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Entropy Fetishist
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Well, Wyrdvane Squads are 60pts a pop and Elites. They are level 1 psykers with access to Div. Good for backfield gunlines. Primaris Psykers are still HQ, but better suited to your plan I reckon.

I was thinking now those LR Punishers look more tempting with the points reduction: 140pts a pop. x3 in a squad = 360pts. Keep a Wyrdvane squad hiding behind and cast Prescience. Will Prescience affect the whole squadron/unit? If so, x60 str5 twin-linked shots protected by av14 armour sounds good to me...
"Wyrdvane"? What was wrong with "psyker battle squads"?

I hear apocryphally* that tanks squadrons (artillery squadrons? Basilisk squadrons?) are limited in size to 2 tanks, now, which is probably inaccurate in some way shape or form. Punishers... yeah, but don't forget to buy them sponson heavy bolters so you get a total of 9x more S5 shots (counting the hull-mounted one).

I believe 140*3=420, not 360. You dropped 20 points per tank there...

I can't imagine that Prescience wouldn't affect a whole unit. The minor downside is that that much anti-infantry power... might often be overkill, and points better spent elsewhere. Ah well, that's what a squad of 2 would be for. (and what's this I hear about Pask being even pricier but grants Rending?)

*egads, can't wait until I get my hands on the 'dex tomorrow. Maybe I should just stop talking about it until then.
 

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JUGGERNUT
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Maybe... but we'll all have it soon enough!

I'm just happy that all I've ordered is the codex. You have no idea (or maybe you do) how close I've come to buying tons of shit on eBay or whatnot but I had to click cancel or back before bidding.

And I barely even play any more... must moderate myself. The good news is that this summer my friends and I are putting together a legit gaming group, and there will be much happy gaming going on without having to worry about papers or exams or whatnot... I swear to the world that my CSM will get painted this summer! By then I should have a good idea of what I want out of a guard army, and I'll make my purchases slowly.
 
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