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Discussion Starter #1
Ok the new lore for the Imperial Fists is up, and it's a very mixed bag.

Ward, and it's clear Ward wrote this stuff because it has his mark all over it, seems to be unable to differentiate between the Black Templars and the Imperial Fists, because practically every new battle in this supplement is titled Crusade of [insert noun here]. No siege actions are mentioned in any detail, and he seemed to really want to include Tycho and Sicarius because they feature in two different battles in the Codex fighting alongside the Fists. More Tycho is awesome, more Sicarius is not.

Also Vladimir Pugh, the Chapter Master of the Imperial Fists since the 90s, is dead. Killed by the Tyranids. Yes, Ward offed a Chapter Master. Whether you approve for whatever reason or now want him burned at the stake for heresy, he at least had the decency to say that this happened 30 years before 999.M41. So Pugh's death can be reconciled with his appearances in the Black Library books and mentions of him in most of the Codexes. The new guy is a nobody who used to be 5th Captain. And in case your wondering why isn't Lysander Chapter Master now, he refused to take the position.

Lysander has also faced some striking changes. Now he did not return to Malodrax after his escape from it, or at least he didn't get all the Iron Warriors, because after he tried to bring down Warsmith Shon'tu and recklessly refused Ultramarines and Blood Angels reinforcements that saw the 3rd Company reduced from full strength to only half a dozen survivors, he was demoted from 1st Captain to 3rd. He has since rebuilt 3rd Company and led the efforts to save Vladimir Pugh from the Space Hulk where he died, and managed to avenge him. After that the Fists, Ultramarines and Blood Angels raze Malodrax together, and it doesn't say if the new Nobody Chapter Master has reinstated him as First Captain or not.

Warsmith Shon'tu is now the Imperial Fists main enemy, an Iron Warrior who hasn't forgotten the old hatreds and is intent on destroying the Fists all together. He was in Ben Counter's Endeavour of Will and that is only the first of his appearances now. He was the Warsmith who decimated 3rd Company by taking advantage of Lysander's stubborness; he crashed a Space Hulk filled with Tyranids into a planet which lured in Pugh and the Fists and got them killed, the only downside in that plan is that he was aiming for Terra through the Warp but the Navigator he enslaved to the Hulk was able to blow it off course. And now Shon'tu, his warband the Sons of the Forge, and the Daemon Be'lakor have invaded the Phalanx when only 3rd Company is aboard and are trying to steal it to use as a flagship for an invasion of Terra. The Fists manage to get the Phalanx into the Warp but both sides are cut off from their allies, but the Fists do receive help from the Legion of the Damned but both sides are still at a stalement.


The Chapter Nobody: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Vorn_Hagen#.UnJushDYeQp

Captain Garadon: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Garadon#.UnJvahDYeQo

Battles: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Invasion_of_Taladorn#.UnJuzBDYeQo

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Battle_of_the_Phalanx#.UnJu2BDYeQo

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Crusade_of_Thunder#.UnJu8hDYeQo

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Crusade_of_Valorous_Steel#.UnJu8xDYeQo

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Infestation_on_Drashin#.UnJu5RDYeQo

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Fall_of_Malodrax#.UnJvDBDYeQo


Thoughts? Has Ward destroyed the Fists completely or can something be salvaged from this??


LotN
 

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After all that, my hands are washed of the Imperial Fists. It's cool they are getting more info but then that info maintains the general storyline of the Imperial Fists being whipping boys. That whole apology they did was a fake, all this new lore has done nothing but to degrade the chapter again, I can't see any positives in this lore addition, only negatives.
 

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Bruva I am hit!
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I'll see if I can get my hands on the supplement at some point. It looks like a mixed bag to me as well. As of right now, the only thing in particular I take issue with is the death of Vladimir Pugh; was that really necessary?
 

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Critique for da CriticGod
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Any time the back story changes or is updated, not everything is going to be cool or work for everyone.

Besides, it's hard being yellow. They must have been teased as children.
 

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Bane of Empires
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Thoughts? Has Ward destroyed the Fists completely or can something be salvaged from this??
Lol. Don't you think that's a bit dramatic?

The only change of substance is the change of Chapter Master, and that really makes no difference.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Lol. Don't you think that's a bit dramatic?

The only change of substance is the change of Chapter Master, and that really makes no difference.
http://thebolthole.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=2909

Bellarius on the bolthole explains why it isn't dramatic better than I can. Ward has ripped-off several BL titles to make this codex and he's turned the Fists into the Templars, turning away from the siege expertise the Fists are famous for and instead turning them into a more Crusade-oriented chapter.


LotN
 

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Bane of Empires
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http://thebolthole.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=2909

Bellarius on the bolthole explains why it isn't dramatic better than I can. Ward has ripped-off several BL titles to make this codex and he's turned the Fists into the Templars, turning away from the siege expertise the Fists are famous for and instead turning them into a more Crusade-oriented chapter.


LotN
So this new codex supplement has caused continuity/canon issues? What new codex or BL book doesn't!?

I haven't read the supplement but I really don't see these as major issues.

I can appreciate the few comments about them being Templar-like, but they can easily be ignored or liberally interpreted.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
So this new codex supplement has caused continuity/canon issues? What new codex or BL book doesn't!?

I haven't read the supplement but I really don't see these as major issues.

I can appreciate the few comments about them being Templar-like, but they can easily be ignored.
Not as much as this one has. Ward has effectively taken all of the Fists centred BL products and altered what happened in them for the Codex, and not in the way you can ascribe to the Codex being a mythical text and the books being hard fact.

In my opinion he's even given the Imperial Fists their own Blood Angels/Necron/Alliance moment. They defeat a Dark Eldar Archon and allow him to go free after he promises he'll never invade this planet again. A year later, guess what he does?? Granted the Fists are there to stop him and they got a recruiting world out of it, but the idea of the Fists letting an alien that has the blood of their Chapter on his hands is ludicrous.


LotN
 

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Bane of Empires
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Not as much as this one has. Ward has effectively taken all of the Fists centred BL products and altered what happened in them for the Codex, and not in the way you can ascribe to the Codex being a mythical text and the books being hard fact.
Don't get so worked up about it, if you don't like the codex just ignore it. Problem solved. :)

I've learnt to do it after so many shite HH novels!

In my opinion he's even given the Imperial Fists their own Blood Angels/Necron/Alliance moment. They defeat a Dark Eldar Archon and allow him to go free after he promises he'll never invade this planet again. A year later, guess what he does?? Granted the Fists are there to stop him and they got a recruiting world out of it, but the idea of the Fists letting an alien that has the blood of their Chapter on his hands is ludicrous.
Can you elaborate on the context of that a bit?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Don't get so worked up about it, if you don't like the codex just ignore it. Problem solved. :)

I've learnt to do it after so many shite HH novels!
Not worked up, just annoyed. And I intend to ignore it, 95% of is typical Ward but one or two things are redeemable.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Fall_of_Malodrax#.UnKu_hDYeQo

Malodrax for example is still good, though it's a little odd what with the Umbilical Cords in Space. But it's not Ward-Dumb.

Can you elaborate on the context of that a bit?
Basically this,

Crusade of Valorous Steel said:
The Warp storm around Pharos finally recedes, allowing the Imperium to reestablish contact. They find a world struggling to survive against Dark Eldar raids and the Adeptus Terra refuses aid as they see no value in the planet. However Chapter Master of the Imperial Fists Vorn Hagan decrees that the people will be reclaimed alone if necessary. The Chapter later arrives at Pharos and prepares the planets defenses just as a new Dark Eldar raid arrives. The invaders think little of the Space Marines and press their attack. It is a decision that costs them dearly, and dozens of their grav-craft are shot down in seconds. Fighting is thickest around the city of Tamashal where the 3rd Company holds the line against Archon Vhane Kyharc's Kabalite Trueborn. Captain Tor Garadon leads a charge that shatters Kyharc's bodyguard and sees the Archon himself taken captive.

Desperate to survive, Kyharc pledges to withdraw and leaves Pharos unmolested forever. However as soon as the Dark Eldar depart the Imperial Fists begin to fortify the city. A year later Kyharc breaks his word and raids the planet once more. However the Imperial Fists had been expecting this, and deploy the 10th Company to defend Pharos' settlements. This is a tradition repeated in later years, and Pharos is soon designated an Imperial Fists recruitment and training world. Nevertheless the Dark Eldar attacks continue and they view it as something as a twisted contest of daring.
They had a dangerous Dark Eldar Archon who had killed Imperial Fists in their hands, and they let him go. The Imperial Fists, chosen of Rogal Dorn, let an alien go.


LotN
 

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That is utterly, utterly, utterly, stupid. Why didn't they just execute the Archon and wipe out his force thus setting an example. Seems a convient way to set up a recruitment world, which is probably what the writer had in mind, ignoring the fact the way he went about it was stupid.

The only good thing actually is the new name of the Chapter Master is better than the previous imo, more Fist sounding.
 

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Jac "Baneblade" O'Bite
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Ward is butchering yet more fluff? Well there is a surprise, both him and his handler need to put down the lollypop and stop writing like 12 year olds.
 
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