Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner

1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Everyone has been saying that i should get alot of immortals instead of flayed ones, what makes them so much better than flayed ones? Any ideas?
Thanks,
Cody
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
6,993 Posts
Now this is just me, but I think the extra point of toughness and gauss blaster are what make the immortals better. Those things, and flayed ones are not on par with other close combat specialists from other armies. A unit of khorne berzerkers, banshee's, striking scorpions, wyches, assault marines, gaunts, warriors, seraphim, grey knights, rough riders, or ogryns can generally make a mockery of flayed ones when the two fight. (Though I have seen first hand that with a bit of luck, good timing, and weight of numbers, flayed ones can stand up to assault marines from time to time.)

Then again, thats just me...:cool:
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,023 Posts
What Reever said you get 2 Attacks on the charge for a 15 point model yes you have WBB but against close assault specialist from other armies they will wipe out all models in the squad so WBB is rendered almost useless, if the flayed ones had one more attack for when they charged making it 3 on the charge and then had rending they'd be better, or better still making them a troop choice would be the best option for them as you can then say well they are troops they aren't meant to be overpowered.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
6,993 Posts
I thought flayed ones were base two attacks already? Meaning they did get three attacks on the charge.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,023 Posts
Ahh yes they do, well maybe giving them rending then will do it or a T5 if they were to stay as elites
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
6,544 Posts
Flayed Ones are horrendously underestimated, in my opinion. As Necrons, they've got the We'll Be Back rule-- and while they're not otherwise outstanding in combat besides their extra attack over a Necron Warrior, the fact that they can stick around almost indefnitely if there's a resurrection orb around (and can thus tie up units like Khorne Berserkers, Banshees, etc.)

The other thing to remember is that there's basically no redundancy in the Necron army. Immortals and Flayed Ones fill very different roles in the army. Flayed Ones are assault specialists, whereas the Immortals are in the army to deal with opposing monstrous creatures and exceptionally tough infantry-- their superior weapons and toughness over the standard warrior lets them handle large non-vehicle targets.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
312 Posts
I'd have to go with the son of horuson this, however i normally use my flayed one for taking out heavy weapons teams or hunkered down troops squads. especially as they can assault out of a monolith. i use the immortals to take out special units, because 10 immortals putting out 20 s5 shots 20 putting out 40 :) they can gun down the best of troops.
 

·
WFB Moderator
Joined
·
8,248 Posts
I'm on the other side of this one. Flayed ones are rubbish, sure they can tie up units that cant kill marines in combat but then so can warriors... and if they meet a CC unit they are toats, res orb or not: doesnt matter if they get a WBB roll if your unit just lost by 5-6 wounds broke and was then run down.

Flayed ones are lucky to beat units when they charge them... and if they do most enemies will be I4, meaning that if you somehow do break them you have a 10/36 chance in catching them.
If flayed ones lose (quite possible on the charge and a near certainty off it) then they have a real chance to break... and if they do they have a 30/36 (5/6) chance of being destroyed.

Mebbe flayed ones might have worked in 4th ed but with fifth's reliance on wounds caused to give LD modifiers they are toast. Ld10 just isnt enough if you lose any fight by 3+ wounds.
If necrons had stubborn or a limit on their modifiers (eg, can never have lower then LD8) then they would be useful once more... but even then true CC units would still just roll straight over them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,312 Posts
Flayed Ones are horrendously underestimated, in my opinion. As Necrons, they've got the We'll Be Back rule-- and while they're not otherwise outstanding in combat besides their extra attack over a Necron Warrior, the fact that they can stick around almost indefnitely if there's a resurrection orb around (and can thus tie up units like Khorne Berserkers, Banshees, etc.)
First, keep in mind that 10 Flayed Ones and a Lord with just the Res Orb. is 320 points while a squad of 10 Banshee are half that (slightly more if you upgrade to Exarch and add powers). For double the points, you would generally expect to be able to do more than just “stick around almost indefinitely”.

If you look at the Math Hammer between Flayed Ones or Immortals and Banshee (which I have the book for), things look even worse, even if you give the charge to the Flayed Ones:

Immortals shooting: (20 shots)(1/2 hit)(2/3 wound) / (no save) = 6.6 Wounds

Banshee CC w/ no Exarch: (20 attacks)(1/2 hits)(1/3 wound) / (no save) = 3.3
Flayed w/ Lord: (21 attack)(1/2 hit)(2/3 wound) / (1/2 save) + (4 attack)(2 hit)(5/6 wound) / (no save) = 3.5 + 1.6 = 5.2 Wounds

Finally, if what you want is to keep the Banshees tied up, skip the Flayed ones and get some Scarabs. They’re cheaper, don’t risk PO when you lose them and don’t do much worse in CC. If you want to kill them, shoot them.

The other thing to remember is that there's basically no redundancy in the Necron army. Immortals and Flayed Ones fill very different roles in the army. Flayed Ones are assault specialists, whereas the Immortals are in the army to deal with opposing monstrous creatures and exceptionally tough infantry-- their superior weapons and toughness over the standard warrior lets them handle large non-vehicle targets.
This is very true. There is little redundancy in our army. But there is some; Flayed Ones and Scarabs and Wraiths fill much the same role. The advantage of the Flayed Ones is that they occupy an Elite slot not the Fast slot (like Scarabs or Wraiths). I don’t think that I’d call Flayed Ones “assault specialists”, though that is their intended roll. They just don’t perform up to that standard. I put them about half-way between a tar-pit unit and a close combat unit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
ok, so it looks like immortals will kill more units than flayed ones. I can see why everyone told me to get them, i watched a battle between necrons and ig 10 flayed ones and 10 immortals, the immortals picked off two full squads of ig troops and the flayed ones killed 5 and then got slaughtered. The scarabs did better than them. So thanks guys for the advice. I appreciate it. saved me quite a bit of money to lol
 

·
WFB Moderator
Joined
·
8,248 Posts
Immortals will always kill more, but the thing with CC is that you break the opponent and then run him down- necrons low I means that just isnt very likely. If they were I4 then flayed ones would still be pants against other CC units but they would at least be useful against other units.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
6,993 Posts
Looking at my Necron codex, flayed ones are I4; so that does help them a little bit in that regard.
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top