[CursedUNTILLDEATH]

Some things in the gaurd codex seem to have no value in my army at all. Anyone disagree?

Vets with shotguns-Its a las gun...with a 12 inch range...and its assault. It cant benifit from First rank second rank, and about 2/3's of the races in warhammer have a higher WS or I then the gaurd. The only reason ive been able to think of using it is bringing a preist and using RF or a commisar so he can rap with his power weapon or in a sucide charge...which is a perfect waste of a vet squads BS4.

Preists- Hes got lower stats then a commisar, costs more and dosent make his squad fearless or stubborn. RF is good but it dosnt work on orgyans and (as posted above) everything can rap a squad of guard on thier way to the enemy and once they get thier to. The invul save is good but its not like his squad is going to survie to fight back. The evsiarator looks alright but it costs...more.

Rough riders-never seen them used before. They look good in a assualt with the hunting lance but what happens once thats used up.

Advisors-okay...a artillary attck that scatters like shit...-1 to reseves...+1 to reseves. Do i really want to pay for this.

Commander chenkov-his stats arnt that great...his orders arnt that great...and i have to buy send in the next wave.

LR vareints- besides the standered LR and demolisher which one do you think is worth its points?

Im not critizing anything here im just asking if anyone uses any of this stuff effectily and how do you use it. I just restared my guard and havnt played to many games with the new codex (no im not a noob i just dont play to much).
Comments are welcome.


Forgive spelling

 

[Caxton]

I personally don't see much use for shotguns, but I suppose that it would allow your vets to seek the shelter of CC after shooting up a unit.

Priests are not good...IF they affected Ogryns, they would be a decent option, but as it is they seem to be built for handling something the Guard does not do.

As for the advisors, the MoO is not great, he has never hit anything for me. However, do not underestimate the other two. If you are using alot of reserves like valks, the Astropath is indispensible. The Master of the Fleet will really mess up your opponents plans as well.

The LR's are all cool, though I do think the original is the best. I think that all are worth their points in their designed role, except maybe the Punisher.

Chenkhov and Rough Riders I have no experience with.

 

[ItsPug]

Vets with shotguns-Its a las gun...with a 12 inch range...and its assault. It cant benifit from First rank second rank, and about 2/3's of the races in warhammer have a higher WS or I then the gaurd. The only reason ive been able to think of using it is bringing a preist and using RF or a commisar so he can rap with his power weapon or in a sucide charge...which is a perfect waste of a vet squads BS4.

Except their assault weapons, so you can fire them and still assault. I use this to kill the bubble wrap around an important vehicle with the shotguns, and then multi-charge the bubble wrap and the vehicle, taken with the demolitions doctrine you can wipe out both.

Rough riders-never seen them used before. They look good in a assualt with the hunting lance but what happens once thats used up.

Use them to tie up a shooty unit or contest an objective

Advisors-okay...a artillary attck that scatters like shit...-1 to reseves...+1 to reseves. Do i really want to pay for this.

Being able to get the outflankers on on the right side 8/9 times? Earlier in the game when they can have more of an impact? Screwing with your opponents ability to bring on units from reserve? And bodyguards allow for fun allocations of wounds ie berzerkers charge in and do 39 wounds to a squad with 2 bodyguards and one advisor, should wipe them out right? Nope allocate 5 wounds to everyone bar the commander who takes 4, he allocates 2 of these to bodyguards and he is still alive with one wound, berzerkers have caused 7 wounds for combat resolution, 7 from 39.

LR vareints- besides the standered LR and demolisher which one do you think is worth its points?

Exterminator with hull lascannon, heavy bolter sponsons and pask. I use it when I'm only taking russes and infantry as light armour dies too quickly, does the same job as a pair of hydras, but is much more survivable.

 

[MidnightSun]

Damn, I just noticed that Shotguns are only 12" range. Gotta pull the arms of one unfortunate Veteran then... I thought that they were 18". I think that then they'd be worth it, and make them upgradable to Man-Stoppers for Str 4 for 5pts.

Rough Riders are a cheap unit for anti-TEQ units. A unit of 5 charging a unit of 5 Terminators has 10 Power Weapon attacks, hitiing on 4+, wounding on 3+. That's most of the unit wiped out and two Terminators costs more than your entire squad put together.

All the Advisors are useful, they don't look much on paper but they rape Bike/Drop Pod/Terminator armies, help your own reserves get in a turn or so earlier and the MoO is really just a Guardsman holding an Earthshaker. AN EARTHSHAKER.

Midnight

 

[HOBO]

Vets with Shotties are OK if you face enemy lists that are just as poor at assault as Guard are...then you have an edge if you enhance their abilities...for me though Vets and assault don't go together, or Guard lists in general.

Priests I've seen work well with Conscripts.

RR's are good in Infantry-heavy lists, and I will be using them in my DKOK list (love the Death Rider models), and are for counter assaults...but you're right in that they will likely be wiped out after doing some initial damage. They don't fit the 'mech' theme, which is why you hardly ever see them fielded.

Advisors are very good, well 2 of them anyway -
MoO...too inaccurate, keeps the CCS immobile which limits their effectiveness. BG's I would only ever spend points on if I already had everything I needed in my list - 30 pts for 2, I'd take an Astropath or OoTF first.
Astropath is a must if you have Valks/Vends in your list, or anything that outflanks really.
OoTF is great at messing with the enemy's Reserves/outflankers.

Overall, if you don't have a need for Asvisors then don't take them.

Russ varients: the top 3 are (from what I've used/seen used) are -
standard Russ - nice and cheap and the BC will kill a lot if scatters are kind to you.
Demolisher - opponents are just plain scared of its potential, and it's great at MEQ hunting, especially Termis...keep it mobile because it's susceptible to assault due to the shotr range of the main gun.
Executioner- also great at MEQ hunting and is a scary tank to face. Give it Plasma Sponsons to set up a killing ground. Great AP2 with a longer range than a Demolisher.

The rest are either poor at what they do and/or need Pask to make them good which makes them expensive, plus they can be replaced by more effective and cheaper alternatives.

 

[Curiosity kills]

I may only have a night lord army, but I have been doing some experimentation with a friend's of mines guard.

shotguns on your vets It depends on circumstance. the times I have use the shotguns well included me also using 3 flamers (yes I am aware of peoples dislike of arming their bs4 vets with flamers boo hoo I don't care so don't complain)and a demo charge. after all of this I fire some shotguns then charged that now two man tactical squad and killed them last turn of the game claiming the objective that won me the game. so in short shotguns do have a use just depends on the player.

Priests- I have played against a guard army using priests once and let me put it this way he used them right. He was using Commander Chekhov as well. a priest is an independent character that takes up no command slot and is Ld 8 he used two. they joined the conscripts no upgrades. Chekhov creates a 12 inch stubborn bubble. he then had two 30 man Ld 8 stubborn squads that re roll hits when they charge, but it does not end there following them was the infamous Iron hand straken. you get the picture I lost two CSM squads and a defiler because of this combo in one game while they lost one conscript squad and both priests. this guy did not give the conscripts bring in the next wave which let him get another Russ into his list. thats it for Chekhov and priests.

rough riders- in small games no one is expecting to lose almost a full squad of marines. or a daemon prince in my case. recommend tactics hold them in reserve to counter enemy's in your back deployment zone or use creed and out flank them. this keeps them alive so these one trick ponies can do their one trick. then watch as the enemy wastes a turn of shooting killing them off. good distraction.

advisor's all of them have there own thing they are good at and the other people have all ready explained them so I won't.

guards best Russes from an opponents point of view. The standard Russ cheap and effective. the demolisher short range high power and AP better rear armor, and that plasma spitting death tank the executioner because it is spitting plasma no one likes plasma.

hope this helps

 

[Snowy]

I'm gonna go with HOBO's opinions except for the Bodyguards.
They can be very useful in the fact that if you take one (I only take one) it is another member of the squad, so better for Morale as you need to lose two people in the squad to force Morale, you and stop that Squad of Marines kill your Commander, and he's not half bad in a fight as well, sure he's no Straken, but he is WS 4 and has three attacks (2 Base and 2 CCW.) so he won't go easily, and he is the cheapest advisor, my favourite loadout is to take a comander with PP, and give the vets PGs and take a bodyguard, and when the Comanders PP gets hot, the Bodyguard takes the wound (Well thats the way I see it, some of you others may see it differently.)

 

[ItsPug]

rough riders- in small games no one is expecting to lose almost a full squad of marines. or a daemon prince in my case. recommend tactics hold them in reserve to counter enemy's in your back deployment zone or use creed and out flank them. this keeps them alive so these one trick ponies can do their one trick. then watch as the enemy wastes a turn of shooting killing them off. good distraction.

Creed can't allow a unit of rough riders to outflank as they are cavalry, he can only outflank infantry and vehicles.

Yeah I know. :crazy: but thems the rules.

 

[MidnightSun]

I don't like Bodyguards, Nork is so much cooler. Sorry if this is thread hijacking, but it says that two wounds may be allocated to the Bodyguards. Does this include Nork? I'd have thought he could have taken three, but that may just be wishful thinking on my part.

Midnight

 

[dutchy1982]

Stormtroopers. To bloody expensive (6 for 85pts - Seriously?) and as soon as your opponent see's them you know they're getting shot to shreds. Far beeter to have Vets as grenadiers who can also take an extra meltagun than the Storm Troopers.

 

[MidnightSun]

But don't have an AP or Spec Ops.

Midnight

 

[OddJob]

Vets with shotguns-

Lasguns are crap too, but never forget the rule of cool. Shotguns are cool, and are therefore better. Fact.

 

[MidnightSun]

Although they are far more badass fluffwise (just look at the cover of Cadian Blood), they are still terrible. Make them like Marine shotguns (18" Range) and we get something truly badass.

Midnight

 

[Asmodeun]

Can you give vets manstopper rounds? 'cause strength 4 is shining for gaurd.
I'd certainly agree with anyone who says the advisers are a bitch to fight, other than that I don't have much experience with the other things mentioned.

 

[Stephen_Newman]

Rough Riders do work as a cheap unit full of power weapon attacks. I presume (being an Eldar player) that the power weapon bonus works every first round of combat like a laser lance.

Stormtroopers rock! Apart from the cool models (talking about cadian kasrkin here) and numerous setup options and AP3 weapons is there really another reason not to take them.

Regarding LR. I found 2 of the variants do work when tooled up properly in a specialised manner. The eradicator armed with 3 heavy bolters tools out 10 shots-9 at S5 with AP4 and 1 large blast S6 AP4 shot that ignores cover-great for digging out troops. Second variant is the executioner armed with lascannon and 2 plasma cannons-5 S7 AP2 small templates a turn as wells as a S9 AP2 shot love it! Although it is a tad expensive points wise.

 

[ItsPug]

Rough Riders do work as a cheap unit full of power weapon attacks. I presume (being an Eldar player) that the power weapon bonus works every first round of combat like a laser lance.

Nope - one use only, first turn of the very first combat and then they're down to knives. Still, its great to take a squad and fuck over small squads of plague marines, hits on 4s, wounds on 3s and then loads of dead plague marines.

 

[lomaxxdurang]

Ok really a lot of this depends on how much your scatter dice hate you. And if your enemy tends to clump.
Clumping enemys die to the MOO. Even if you scatter it kills large groups with good target placement. It can kill battlewagons and other annoying vehicles too.
Just work out where to drop it that even if it scatters you will still probably get some.

Marbo same rules as MOO, some people hate him but good placement makes Marbo a monster and a great distraction. You want to slow a guy down a turn take out something useful with Marbo, then next turn watch him try to kill him 2 wounds 3+ covr save he can be surprisingly resililent to enemy fires. This ties up a unit that could kill something important with 65 pts, now on top of that if they choose to ignore Marbo he is still nasty he can kill infantry but he excels at vehicles with his melta bombs. This technique rocks.

As to guard in close combat you can have monster expensive nob squads if you want them.

A 40 man platoon can be 2 nob squads with 2 squads per nob unit.
Each sgt has a power weapon, commissars are power weapons, flamers, priests (no eviscerators try to keep them out of combat and at the back of the bus as they are targettable and you want 4 priests and 4 commissars so one per actual squad and divided between the two groups evenly.
This squad has ablative wounds rerolls and 8 power weapons with 3 attacks a piece that will romp on most anybody.

 

[Cadian440th]

good advice so far but just for some prospective on some of the things on your list;
officer of the fleet made my friends army about half what it normally is allowing me to deal with him much more efficiently as he starts everything in reserve
LRexecutioner kills termies and marines who usually cost as much as the tank and its funny when they just start falling (mine has never made less than its points in games so far)