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Angryman
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
How do other IG players deal with the massive number of killpoints we put on the table. I had a game yesterday that went very well(or so it seemed). However as usual with ig. I had more than half my force still on the table but lost on kill points. What to do?
 

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Death Before Dishonour
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My understanding of kill points is that it's a single point for every destroyed unit, yes?

I can understand how this raises issues for Horde players, or in general players who can have large numbers of relatively cheap units on the table.

I feel that the Victory Points scheme was more balanced. (wasn't it you got points equalling the units worth, say a 200pt Tactical squad, if you 100% destroyed it you got 200 VPs, or if 50% 100 VPs)

Grish
 

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Angryman
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I will admit that the game was lost by me feeding a couple of units into the grinder and loosing them. Marbo got wasted and i lost a stormtrooper squad to a DS mishap. The only thing that helps the guard is combined squads. I run my 10man inf squads in combined pairs. As the rules state that they are treated as a single unit once combined, this saves me some killpoints.
If we had used VP's it would have been a much better result.
 

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But we don't have VP's now so not much point in discussing VP's v KP's really...it's been done to death many times.

Combining Infantry will help..I run a 30-Man Blob in all my Mech lists so that's a couple KP's saved. If you run multiples of those in an Infantry-heavy list then that's 1 way to cut back. CCs's are no longer 2 KP's which is a good thing also.

Also, there's 2 sides to this argument, inthat the opponents who have to wipe out big combined blobs of Guard have to do so but then only receive 1 KP for their effort, so they bitch and moan about that.

I mainly play with Mech lists and it's easy to rack up KP's but the one thing I wouldn't do is try and make as many Squadrons as possible just so I can trim off a few KP's, mainly because we all know the problems surrounding squadroning...depending on the game's points limit of course, but even in 3K lists I only have 3 squadrons.

In the end you need to find a balance so that you can field a list that is competitive in KP missions and also in objective-based missions..and KP's are only 1 out of the 3.
 

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Have you considered a veteran list rather than a horde? You need transports, but it still increases your army`s overall resilience a bit.

Other than that combined squads is the only way I can think of.
 

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go with bulky units if you can. Also Mech guard mean you have more kill points as all the tanks (lost a game yesterday becuase of that fact)
 

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blahblahblahblah
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How do other IG players deal with the massive number of killpoints we put on the table. I had a game yesterday that went very well(or so it seemed). However as usual with ig. I had more than half my force still on the table but lost on kill points. What to do?
when KP games come up instantly shake your opponents hand and say "good game, shame I lost, want another?", and keep doing this until a game type that isn't retarded comes up.
 

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Kill Points are fine, there's no reason to auto lose a KP game with Imperial Guard unless you're a awful player. Simple as that. Just play a canny game, you know what the rules are and play to them. They are a bit tougher than the Objective missions but swings and round about's, armies which are great at KP tend to be weak at objectives.

Aramoro
 

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blahblahblahblah
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its principle as well, KP is just a terrible game design and makes no sense at all, I'd refuse to play it with any army, don't care if it means auto lose.
 

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Honestly not a fan of kill points, but i guess its just something we have to live with.

If you want to try and minimize the number of kill points, consider blobbing infantry and squadroning vehicles.

I play Orks as well, and they are no better when it comes to kill points.
 

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blahblahblahblah
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and roughly correct
I have 10 guard squads, you have 5 marine squads, I lose 5 guard squads (250pts) and you lose 4 marine squads (600+pts), so I have 5 squads worth 250pts vs your 1 worth 150+pts left....but you win.

thats far from "roughly correct" its more along the lines of "completely WRONG".
 

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Then you should have played a more tactically astute game then shouldn't you.

Going with victory points leads to really really negative play on behalf of the horde player and makes it unbalanced in their favour every time. KP prevents that type of negative play by making all squads essentially equal.

Aramoro
 

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blahblahblahblah
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Then you should have played a more tactically astute game then shouldn't you.
oh don't gimme that bollocks for goodness sake, even in a "tactically astute game" losing 5 squads of guardsmen is more than realistic, stop talking crap.
KP prevents that type of negative play by making all squads essentially equal.
wait, you reckon making all squads essentially equal is preventing negative play?, your seriously trying to say that something like 10 thunder hammer terminators is equal to 1 squad of guardsmen?...even though there perfectly capable of cutting through 10 squads of guardsmen...........thats a load of stinking steaming crap.
 

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I have to agree with Stella on this one.

Lets look at a Dual Nob Biker list.

Tough, everything holds objectives, can stretch out to cover multiple objectives, VERY mobile, and is only 4 kill points.

They are effective enough in objective-based games, but playing them in kill points?.... seriously, its just a fucking waste of time. :picknose:


"Oh look, i killed 5 units of gaunts you spawned from your Tervigons, i auto-win"
"But.... ive killed everything of yours except for 1 model..."
"Doesnt matter, i auto-win, quit bitching"

*facepalm*
 

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oh don't gimme that bollocks for goodness sake.
If you hadn't noticed IG are one of the top tier armies so clearly have little problem winning KP based games. Being a bad player doesn't mean the game is wrong, it means you're a bad player.

What you're saying is I can build my all Death Company army and refuse to play any objective based mission because my army sucks in those situations. That is clearly nonsense. My army selection sucks, not the mission type.

wait, you reckon making all squads essentially equal is preventing negative play?, your seriously trying to say that something like 10 thunder hammer terminators is equal to 1 squad of guardsmen?...even though there perfectly capable of cutting through 10 squads of guardsmen...........thats a load of stinking steaming crap.
Play VP's with those termies and watch them get tarpitted with disposable squads. VP's encourage tarpitting with stubborn squads which just turn games in grind fests. KP's discourages that tactic. With your Tervigon-Nob Bikers example. You just spawn lots of free termigants and lock them in combat, now it's just as unfair in the other direction.

Aramoro
 

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If you hadn't noticed IG are one of the top tier armies so clearly have little problem winning KP based games. Being a bad player doesn't mean the game is wrong, it means you're a bad player.

Just because some might be lucky/good enough to deal with being at a severe disadvantage doesn't change the fact that the severe disadvantage exists.

Just because IG are a top army in general doesn't mean they don't have problems with KP games if they have an advantage in other games, or end up against another horde army in KPs, or some other similar circumstances. That's like saying Obama was elected president so racism is clearly gone. Not so much.

What you're saying is I can build my all Death Company army and refuse to play any objective based mission because my army sucks in those situations. That is clearly nonsense. My army selection sucks, not the mission type.

What about the part where he said he'd refuse to play KP games regardless of what army he was playing? Also, Blood Angels have the option to not build an all Death Company list, while Imperial Guard are forced to take infantry units that are cheap and relatively less powerful than Troops of other armies, even if they go with Veterans for the Troop choices.


Play VP's with those termies and watch them get tarpitted with disposable squads. VP's encourage tarpitting with stubborn squads which just turn games in grind fests. KP's discourages that tactic. With your Tervigon-Nob Bikers example. You just spawn lots of free termigants and lock them in combat, now it's just as unfair in the other direction.

Isn't that the very tactic you just said going from VP's to KP's was trying to discourage?

How is handing them a free win by KP's by locking those bikers in combat unfair to the Ork player? Being locked in combat really doesn't matter when it makes you win the game.

Aramoro
Just my two cents. Personally I don't deal with any of this crap--my friends and I usually just set up and try to wipe each other off the board. Whenever we decide to call it we just look at what's left and where, talk out how the rest of the game would probably have gone, and agree on a victor of a draw. On the rare occasion we do objectives, they're in 2v2 or 3v3 games with nobody playing the same army, so that usually doesn't matter. Tournaments of virtually any game have too much competitiveness and general douchebaggery for me to enjoy, and if I'm not having fun playing a game there really isn't any reason to play that game.
 

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You absolutely do not have to pick a lot of troops to play guard. You can take 1 CCS, 2 Vet Squads and 2 Squadrons of 3 Demolishers as a 1500pts Army, 5 KP total. But thats an aside.

There are two types of missions, KP and Objectives. Guard have a great time in Objective based missions and a slightly harder time in KP based games. To say they autolose is just a lie, their performance in KP games in tourneys shows this to be a lie.



Isn't that the very tactic you just said going from VP's to KP's was trying to discourage?

How is handing them a free win by KP's by locking those bikers in combat unfair to the Ork player? Being locked in combat really doesn't matter when it makes you win the game.
Read what I said again, if you play VP it favours the side that can produce free troops which prevent your opponent scoring any points.

to avoid getting tarpitted maybe you should play a more "tactically astute game".
Correct you should, but no matter which way you cut that third mission it favours one tactic or the other, can't please everyone. But it still stands that if you consider a KP an Autoloss for Guard it is because your army sucks, you suck or they both suck. There is no reason you cannot win those games.

Aramoro
 
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