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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So as more Formations hit the game, I find that this is coming up more and more often, and once again am looking for additional opinions on the ruling.

This has come up especially with the new Skyhammer Annihilation Force, and for myself, the Nemesis Strike Force (just two examples).

If you have an allied detachment of some sort, and you have an Independent Character. You take the IC, and attach it to a squad of GK Terminators from the NSF, or you put them in the drop pod with the Devastators from the SAF... does the deployment still work?

My take is yes. An IC added to the unit deploys with the unit, as part of the unit. However, opposing arguments state that the IC is not part of that formation, which negates the entire formation.

NOTE: I'm only talking deployment. Not the run/shoot that the NSF get, or the special firepower from the SAF, etc.
 

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First of all, Nemesis Strike Force is a Detachment.

Instead of including a Force Organisation chart, the Army List
Entries that comprise a Formation are listed on it, along with any special rules
that those units gain.
Here is where it states that only units within the formation gain the special rules, which is fine, when you may get rules like Fearless which works when it's "one or more models", but not when you've got rules like Fleet ("composed entirely of models").

Now, in regards to the Command Bonuses for Detachments;

"Command Bonuses;
This [section of the Detachment] lists any additional bonuses or special rules that apply to some, or all, of the units in this Detachment."

Basically, these apply to all units within the detachment, unless it states otherwise.

Now, in regards to IC's from other detachments getting the special rules from the detachment, if it states "models", it obviously only effects the models. If it says Units, there are two camps here, both completely RAW legal;

"While an Independent Character is part of a unit, he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes, though he still follows the rules for characters."

then there is this rule

"When an Independent Character joins a unit, it might have different special rules from
those of the unit. Unless specified in the rule itself (as in the Stubborn special rule), the unit’s special rules are not conferred upon the Independent Character, and the Independent Character’s special rules are not conferred upon the unit. Special rules that are conferred to the unit only apply for as long as the Independent Character is with them."

These two are in direct opposition to each other; one saying you count as a unit for all purposes, and the other saying that unless the rule applies explicitly to all models in the unit, it does not work.

There is no RAW argument around either way.

However; in regards to the Nemesis Strike Formation; there is a special rule that explicitly applies for them; "Can use modifiers and re-rolls that apply to Reserve Rolls that are granted by a Battle Brother’s model." The modifier is as a special rule that applies to the Battle Brothers unit and hence the models in that unit.

Now, that said, my personal take on it (the worth of my opinion being that I've had the least 15 years playing the game, and I work with contracts law), is that the ban on special rules carring over prevents you from joining a unit with Furious Charge and then said character trying to gain Furious Charge, and that it's a fucking awfully worded rule that came from some fuckwit attempting to be a rules lawyer and impress the bosses by preventing a potential oversight (which was never there in the first place).

So, to reiterate; a rule applying to an entire unit applies to all models in the unit, unless it explicitly says otherwise; check out Enfeeble for example; the Psychic Power affects "the target unit", using the thinking about, Enfeeble wouldn't affect enemy IC's attached to enemy units". (Good question trying to work out a unit made up entirely of IC's though!), or Prescience, or pretty much any Psychic Power.



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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I thought you'd like to hear that I presented your Battle Brother argument about modifiers and re-rolls.

I was just told that it's not a modifier.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
A few people have quoted the same rule you did, that if a rule is not given to the whole squad... while I gave the other half of that rule, where the IC counts for the unit.

When I posted what you wrote about the Battle Brothers modifying, I was told by one person that 'Instead of' does not mean modify, it means 'Instead of'. Then someone else said that since the Formation says 'GK only', you cant add allies to it. Someone else then said that all the tournament rulings have allowed it, and they said that tournaments don't count.

So I think I'll just call it a day over there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
This was one of the group moderators for a 'Chambers Militant' 40k group on Facebook. I had posted a list that started with the NSF and a Librarius Conclave (mostly to add 3 ICs, one to each group of GK Terminators).

The list had each Librarian in Terminator armor to take advantage of Deep Strike with the GK group. The moderator proceed to state over and over that because 'Rites of Teleportation' was a special rule, the rule you quoted above means that the IC doesn't get it, and that Rites of Teleportation is not a modifier.

There was me and one other person, me explaining the OTHER rule from the IC section, stating that it does count for the rules. The other person was stating that they have to deploy together because the unit deploys as a whole.

The moderator continued to say over and over that it forces them to not be able to go into reserve together. Otherwise it would be a way for an IC to get around having a jump pack and going in with Assault Marines. When I said, for the fourth time, to stop focusing on wargear because that part was already covered, he degraded into saying 'stop arguing, this is a friendly debate'. But he had already made his own cracks about arguing ourselves into a corner of wet paint, so I said sod off and stopped talking about it.
 

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