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Discussion Starter #1
Came up in a game yesterday and wanted to see if it was played correctly, and if so, to see how it can be prevented in the future.

Csm vs ig. I had a blob of 26 cultists with a juggerlord near the front, and another blob of 26 cultists with abbadon near the front. The abbadon blob was funneled into a corridor (via buildings) and my IG opponent's leman Russ demolisher targeted the back of the blob with his cannon/plasma cannons, doing around 17 wounds in total (zero scatter). Now, there were roughly 7 cultists within look out sir range (6'). They were removed after passing look out sir on abbadon. After his there was nobody within 6', meaning the remaining 10 ap2 wounds had to be put on abbadon, promptly assassinating him, leaving his 19 or so odd cultist bodyguards behind him untouched.

Part 2 was similar with the khorne lord, he got rid of all the Cultists within look out sir an the remaining wound pool was all allocated into the ic, killing him outright and leaving a majority of his squad intact.

Was this played correctly? Is this a valid method of killing ics? In this case, taking a giant blob of ablative wounds doomed both ics, rather than soaking up wounds as intended. Should the ics be kept more centralized or near the back to prevent this even though it means assaulting on a later turn?
 

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Yep that all looks legit. If there is no one within 6" you can't Look Out Sir.

I'm a bit surprised that all the LoS attempts passed to kill all of the Cultists but I guess that can happen.

Putting your big guys at the front is always going to lessen their effectiveness as extra wounds. I'm sure with a bit of thought you can get your Lord through the press of the cultists to get into combat if you keep him farther back.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Well with only 6-8 cultists in Los range, passing on a 2+ they evaporate quickly...especially against overly shooty armies. Just seems silly to me that the ablative wound blob caused a single model to take 3-4x the damage he would have taken being solo. Kinda defeats the point of it all, ya know? I guess I could bite it and hide them near the back, a late charge is better than being dead afterall.
 

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I guess that is the trade off, by himself he'd have only taken a single hit from a template.
 

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Well as I understand it unless its ordinance or barrage you take the guys from the front template or no template. If it has at least one of the two rules you remove them from the centre of the blast.
 

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Barrage only trace from the centre of the template, ordnance are just as normal.
 

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Also, you can target models with a blast that are in cover (to get more models under the blast template as people tend to pack them in tighter) and use focus fire to only hit other models in the unit that don't get as good of a cover save. At least as I understand it.
 

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Also, you can target models with a blast that are in cover (to get more models under the blast template as people tend to pack them in tighter) and use focus fire to only hit other models in the unit that don't get as good of a cover save. At least as I understand it.
Not quite, you have to place the blast marker over a model that can have a wound allocated to it, i.e. one that you are focussing you fire on, but the blast can cover models in cover in that instance.

Scattering seems to work as normal, with I assume the resultant wounds being allocated as per the focus.
 

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Came up in a game yesterday and wanted to see if it was played correctly, and if so, to see how it can be prevented in the future.

Csm vs ig. I had a blob of 26 cultists with a juggerlord near the front, and another blob of 26 cultists with abbadon near the front. The abbadon blob was funneled into a corridor (via buildings) and my IG opponent's leman Russ demolisher targeted the back of the blob with his cannon/plasma cannons, doing around 17 wounds in total (zero scatter). Now, there were roughly 7 cultists within look out sir range (6'). They were removed after passing look out sir on abbadon. After his there was nobody within 6', meaning the remaining 10 ap2 wounds had to be put on abbadon, promptly assassinating him, leaving his 19 or so odd cultist bodyguards behind him untouched.

Part 2 was similar with the khorne lord, he got rid of all the Cultists within look out sir an the remaining wound pool was all allocated into the ic, killing him outright and leaving a majority of his squad intact.

Was this played correctly? Is this a valid method of killing ics? In this case, taking a giant blob of ablative wounds doomed both ics, rather than soaking up wounds as intended. Should the ics be kept more centralized or near the back to prevent this even though it means assaulting on a later turn?
One thing confuses me about the way you worded this. You said Abbadon had 10 wounds allocated to him, leaving the rest of the squad(out of Lo,S range) untouched. Did you roll his Invul just well enough that he absorbed all 10 wounds? Any leftover wounds after he falls would go onto the rest of the unit. That said, you get to batch roll them too. So a 3-wound IC would roll 10 wounds in groups of 3. Don't know if it's just me but I roll much better with smaller groups of dice.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Dan you'd be correct. I fudged the aftermath details a bit. Abby ate the blunt of the wounds until he was dead (1 at a time is how I do it) and the remaining wounds (3 out of 10 I believe) killed a couple odd cultists. The focus of my question was being able to use templates on ablative wounds to do tremendous damage on an IC, by simply removing all closeby models.
 

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The focus of my question was being able to use templates on ablative wounds to do tremendous damage on an IC, by simply removing all closeby models.
Thing is tho' that is always going to happen is large volumes of shots/wounds. I think your example is a reasonably rare case and rather than being illustrative of a weakness of the Look Out Sir, I'd see it more as a very good reason not to put Uber characters with large numbers of piss weak troops as "cover".

Maybe we see now a reason for the SM Command Squads that were previously pretty useless. The 'pothecary to give FNP and 4 vet's to soak up the wounds for the boss.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thing is tho' that is always going to happen is large volumes of shots/wounds. I think your example is a reasonably rare case and rather than being illustrative of a weakness of the Look Out Sir, I'd see it more as a very good reason not to put Uber characters with large numbers of piss weak troops as "cover".

Maybe we see now a reason for the Command Squads that were previously pretty useless. The 'pothecary to give FNP and 4 vet's to soak up the wounds for the boss.
Yes very true. It's a different story for something like a DA command squad and similar lower model count retinues. You see time and time again with CSM where people run HQ+cultist blob and have good results, but after trying it out myself I fail to see it as anything but a detriment. I have to try it again with the HQ in the very back before giving up on the idea.
 

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Also remember you got backed into a corridor and then took a blast template to the face. Like Magpie said that's not always going to be the case. Against anti tank shots an even anti infantry having a blob is useful especially if you can spread the unit out a bit while keeping everyone within 6" of your HQ.

It also comes down to playing and moving smartly. Surely his Leman Russ didn't just deep strike behind you. If you see it near your units plan accordingly. Since you know he will be blasting you're clumped up bunch of cultists, make sure you keep them all within range of your HQs.
 

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If you know that there are template on the enemy team, then spacing out these kinds of units are crucial. Remember, you can have a 2 inch gap between models in a unit. This will reduce the amount of wounds taken.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
If you know that there are template on the enemy team, then spacing out these kinds of units are crucial. Remember, you can have a 2 inch gap between models in a unit. This will reduce the amount of wounds taken.
Yes indeed, the downside to that is limiting the number of models available to eat look out sir around the ic. That of course is a mute point if the IC is in the back.

And he had multiple demolishers on his front line...troops All in transports, playing long table edge. With 26x2 cultist blobs in front, there was nowhere else to go. Gonna chalk it up to a horrible situation for me and basically ideal for the IG. Got a few more ideas to test ablative wound squads before I scrap it.
 

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Re: initial post. Yeah, it's legal, and yeah, that's why you don't leave the uber Killy model at the front of the unit.

As an added bonus, if you're charging a weak/medium tough opponent, your uberkilly character might not make it into combat that first round, making it more likely that the opponent won't flee and leave you exposed during their shooting phase... while your character can pile in and mop up on the following turn.
 

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Re: initial post. Yeah, it's legal, and yeah, that's why you don't leave the uber Killy model at the front of the unit.

As an added bonus, if you're charging a weak/medium tough opponent, your uberkilly character might not make it into combat that first round, making it more likely that the opponent won't flee and leave you exposed during their shooting phase... While your character can pile in and mop up on the following turn.
I love Mossy's deviousness... it is so...heretic...
 
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